[Stoves] Fwd: Full cooking with minimal TLUD stove --- Re: Rebecca Vermeer sent you a video: "Cooking Performance of Eco-Kalan Stainless Steel TLUD Stove, March 13, 2017"

Paul Anderson psanders at ilstu.edu
Tue Mar 21 21:28:51 CDT 2017


Rebecca,

Using two or more different stoves (stove stacking) can be very useful.

What are the comparative prices of the Eco-Kalan-C and the TLUD (which 
you said is $10)?

And what are the other important differences?  Especially mention fire 
power (which one is more heat, and by how much, estimate percentage is 
fine).

Paul

Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu
Skype:   paultlud    Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website:  www.drtlud.com

On 3/21/2017 1:49 PM, Rebecca A. Vermeer wrote:
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Cooking Performance of Eco-Kalan Stainless Steel TLUD Stove, Nilat-an, 
> March 13, 2017
>
> https://youtu.be/oUbbiEcN7Rc
>
> Cooking Performance of Eco-Kalan Stainless Steel TLUD Stove, Nilat-an, 
> March 13, 2017
>
> https://goo.gl/photos/F2b9smQ1Vi8gS3AW6
>
>
> Dear Tony, Neil and All,
>
> Thank you for your suggestions and encouragement.
>
>
> 1.  I have opted to make the TinCan TLUD stove into stalnless steel 
> (0.4mm) for a total cost of about US$10 for the entire set up 
> (including bricks, parilla, kalan, plain 2" riser and handle).  Steel 
> and labour (local tinsmith) account for 60% of total costs.
>
>
> 2. Two canisters each containing over 1 kg dry wood fuel will cook 2 
> dishes - meat with noodles/vegetables and fish.  Cooking rice, which 
> requires the "palangay" method (cooking with embers),  is best done 
> with the Eco-Kalan stove.   The embers in the TLUD stove are too far 
> from the pot bottom to be effective.  Hence, charcoal is collected for 
> other uses.
>
>
> 3. Given the choice of being able to use only 1 stove, all 6 members 
> of my household who cook in an outdoor kitchen at Felipa Beach prefer 
> the Eco-Kalan-C to the TLUD stove. However, they don't mind  owning 
> both stoves if money is not an issue and  precut and dry fuel is 
> available all the time,
>
>
> 4.  A simple 2" hollow riser is better than one with a fan or 
> propeller at the bottom.  Identical  hollow risers can be produced  at 
> the local shop but not so with the fan or propeller type.
>
>
> 5. The handle is great -- cools off very quickly.
>
>
> As always, all your comments are much appreciated.
>
>
> Rebecca
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 9 Mar 2017 at 2:38, Tony Vovers wrote: > Hopefully if this thread 
> suggestions are followed the "best" tin can setup  can be defined and 
> some simple tools to hot swap cans. A straight metal rod/thick fence 
> wire passed through the secondary air holes ought to be all you need 
> from the looks of things.  It is the only tool I usually use for 
> lifting and replacing the pot support concentrator on the Chinese 
> stove, and the stove body itself for carrying the stove and tipping 
> out the char into a quenching tin.  Sometimes I use a pair of pliers. 
> Neil Taylor
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From: *"TONY VOVERS" <vovers1 at gmail.com>
> *To: *"DISCUSSION OF BIOMASS COOKING STOVES" 
> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> *Sent: *Thursday, March 9, 2017 2:38:15 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [Stoves] Full cooking with minimal TLUD stove --- Re: 
> Rebecca Vermeer sent you a video: "Cooking Performance of Eco-Kalan 
> Tincan TLUD Stove, Feb 6, 2017"
>
> Rebecca
>
> Thanks so much for your postings
> - what I especially like is the versatility and simplicity of the 
> materials and the designs.
>
> The base material is clay so does not require machine shop and 
> specialist metal workers.
> The base unit looks like it is still a rocket stove so those without 
> time/energy to manage the fuel can still cook with sticks.
>
> The Tin cans for TLUD probably won't last too long but seem simple 
> enough to be easily remade.
> Sand as a valve for primary air is a great idea.
>
> Hopefully if this thread suggestions are followed the "best" tin can 
> setup can be defined and some simple tools to hot swap cans.
>
> Please do keep this thread going, I can see the importance of fuel 
> management is again rising to the top of the list of needs for a 
> usable gasifier.
>
> Your Eco-Kalan website is well structured for information including a 
> section on sustainable gathering of wood, the topics of coppicing and 
> pollarding do not get enough airtime in the stove community.
>
> http://www.eco-kalan.com/index.php?index
>
> Just a few words of support - thanks for the effort and quality of the 
> feedback and an interesting development on the eco-Kalan product as a 
> gasifier.
>
> TonyV
>
> Tony Vovers
> +1 281 7381000 (VOIP)
> +62 (813) 3888 9062 (HP)
>
> On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 11:10 PM, Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu 
> <mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu>> wrote:
>
>     Dear all,
>
>     Rebecca's message (below) merits special attention.  Very
>     informative about a low-cost variation of TLUD stoves.  Low cost
>     because it is with a clay pot support, hollow clay brick for
>     primary air entry with sand for air control, and one or two tin
>     cans.   I ask Rebecca to tell us the cost of her TLUD stoves.  I
>     suspect that you are under US$ 5. !!!!!    (not counting the bench
>     / platform upon which the stoves are placed for convenient
>     operation height for those who cook while standing up.   But the
>     stove is short enough by itself to appeal to those who cook while
>     seated or squatting.)
>
>     She is past the stages of proof of concept and the proof of
>     acceptance-by-cooks.  Some fine tuning remains, but this
>     arrangement is close to ready to be into some (further) pilot
>     studies.
>
>     Notes (that only make sense to those who have viewed Rebecca's
>     materials):
>     1.  Advantage of a densified fuel ("log pieces"), but wood in a
>     taller tincan would do the same job and same time.  Also your
>     comment about the male cooks (army) and fuel preparation help
>     point out that fuel preparation can be a new employment for some
>     unskilled workers.   Fuel type and supply are very important,  but
>     almost always any small complaints can be resolved with a little
>     attention to fuel  handling.
>
>     2.  I am not 100% sure of how the top (concentrator) lid is made
>     and placed onto the fuel can.   (I suspect usage of the can opener
>     that leaves the lip on the lid.   Highly economical use of the tin
>     can.)   Instead or alternatively, a separate concentrator lid
>     could be made from a metal dinnerware plate or improvised easily
>     with a tinsmith.
>
>     3.  Video and photos show TWO stoves that I will call "short one"
>     (on the left) and "taller one" on the right which is simply raised
>     on a few bricks. I like the taller one because it has space for
>     and uses a 3+ inch riser (the second tin can, best seen in the
>     still photos before it is put into place.)
>
>     4.  About that riser, I suggest that you turn it upside down.  
>     (or completely cut out both ends).   And consider larger diameter
>     cans for risers.   Experimentation is needed.   Please report what
>     you find to work best (or to not work well).
>
>     5.  There are still issues of safety, such as contact / movement
>     of the very hot single-wall metal pieces (TLUD fuel canister,
>     riser, etc). Tongs or handles will eventually appear, adding
>     convenience but increasing the price.  This will be adjusted
>     according to the prefernces of the stove users, and there should
>     NOT be requirements that these stoves have handles, etc,. thereby
>     delaying the availability of these stoves to people who could want
>     them.
>
>     6.  And an important note about BIOCHAR in Rebecca's
>     configuration:  In the video, they choose to burn the charcoal,
>     which is fine.   But if you want to make biochar, simply remove
>     the fuel canister at the end of pyrolysis, and insert a second
>     tincan what was already prepared and ready for use.  I think that
>     this stove might have significant interest in Bangladesh with
>     Mabubul's project.
>
>     Congratulations to Rebecca and her team!!   (I suggest that a
>     condensed version of the video and photo collection might also be
>     appropriate.)
>
>     Everyone can enjoy reading and seeing their success!!!
>
>     Paul
>
>     Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
>     Email:psanders at ilstu.edu <mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu>
>     Skype:   paultlud    Phone:+1-309-452-7072 <tel:+1%20309-452-7072>
>     Website:www.drtlud.com <http://www.drtlud.com>
>
>     On 3/8/2017 4:03 AM, Rebecca A. Vermeer wrote:
>
>     Cooking Performance of Eco-Kalan TinCan TLUD Stoves with Wood
>     Briquettes & Sticks, March 1, 2017
>
>     https://youtu.be/ESiEWSBnewI
>
>     NOTE:  WHEN VIEWING A PHOTO ALBUM, LEFT CLICK ON THE i icon TO SEE
>     THE INFO DETAILS OF EACH PHOTO.
>
>      March 1, 2017 Broken Alder wood puck briquettes in widemouth
>     Eco-Kalan Tincan TLUD stove - Cooking Peas Phase 1
>
>     https://goo.gl/photos/LfSkQkeRHeYxmZKYA
>
>     March 1, 2017 Ipil-Ipil Sticks in narrow mouth TinCan TLUD stove
>     with riser - Cooking Peas Phase 2
>
>     https://goo.gl/photos/9zttbuSzjLkQgb7V8
>
>
>
>     *Dear Paul, Ron, Julien, Jon and All,*
>
>     Thank you for your encouraging comments and valuable
>     suggestions on the  Feb. 6, 2017 video,  "Cooking Performance of
>     Eco-Kalan TinCan TLUD Stove .  In the above March 1, 2017 video
>     and photo albums, I responded to your comments as follows:
>
>
>     1.  Jon's  comment on squirting kerosene on the top of the fuel
>     bed which then drips down to the bottom:
>
>     The kindlings we use for starting a fire are now dipped into 25 ml
>     of kerosene and placed on top of the fuel bed.
>
>     2.  Paul's and Julien's suggestion to turn down the flame.
>
>     This has been achieved by:
>
>     a)  Sealing with sand all areas of primary air entry including the
>     base of the TinCan which touch the parilla; the back opening and
>     sides of the parilla; and a small but adjustable opening at the
>     front end of the parilla
>
>
>     b)  Loading the minimum required fuel.
>
>
>     c)  Reducing the concentrator hole diameter and maintaining
>     that same hole diameter for the riser.
>
>     Of the above 3 measures, having a small but adjustable opening is
>     the simplest way to control the flame.
>
>     3.  Paul's request for more photos -- please see the above photo
>     albums.
>
>     4.  Ron's query on my cooks' views on the TLUD vs. Traditional
>     approaches
>
>     My female cooks have been using the Eco-Kalan-C for many years and
>     therefore, are hard to wean away from the stove that allows them
>     to do all their cooking effectively and use any type of found fuel
>     year round at Felipa Beach, Dumaguete City, Negros Island,
>     Philippines.   They dislike cutting or sawing wood into prescribed
>     lengths  for my TLUD stoves.  But since male cooks from the
>     Philippine Army  took on some of the cooking and most of the wood
>     fuel preparations, all my cooks (males and females) now like to
>     use the TinCan TLUD stove for short time cooking (within 1 hour)
>     for dishes such as Pancit, Bam-I, soups, vegetables, small pieces
>     or ground meats "because the TinCan stove (with dry wood and
>     kerosene as fire starter) is easy to light, no smoke and  fast
>     cooking". For long time cooking (> 1 hour), they prefer to use the
>     Eco-Kalan-C as adding fuel when needed is very easy.   For frying,
>     my cooks prefer to use the Eco-Kalan-C because they can adjust the
>     temperature of the cooking oil easily by taking out or adding fuel
>     to the fire.
>
>     Since I introduced Wilvaco's  (Willamete Valley Company) alder
>     wood briquettes to my cooks for use in the Eco-Kalan-C and the
>     Eco-Kalan TinCan TLUD stove (see video and photo albums below),  I
>     have noticed significant increase in their enthusiasm for and
>     enjoyment from cooking. A fuel can really make a stove tic. The
>     importance of a good and dry solid fuel motivates me
>     to participate in finding ways to make wood briquettes
>     commercially viable for everyone.
>
>     Warm regards from Felipa Beach,
>
>     Rebecca Vermeer
>
>     Eco-Kalan Project in the Philippines
>
>     ________________________________________________________
>
>
>     _____________________________-
>     Previous message is below.
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     *From: *"PAUL ANDERSON" <psanders at ilstu.edu>
>     <mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu>
>     *To: *"DISCUSSION OF BIOMASS COOKING STOVES"
>     <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>     <mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>, "REBECCA VERMEER"
>     <ravermeer at telus.net> <mailto:ravermeer at telus.net>
>     *Sent: *Thursday, February 23, 2017 11:37:06 AM
>     *Subject: *Re: [Stoves] Rebecca Vermeer sent you a video: "Cooking
>     Performance of Eco-Kalan Tincan TLUD Stove"
>
>     Rebecca,
>
>     I agree with Ron that it is a very good video.  I am very glad to
>     see your accomplishments.
>
>     My comments are intended to be constructive.
>
>     1.  Your fire is a bit high.   That indicates some leakage of
>     primary air.   I suspect that it is where the can is sitting on
>     the hollow brick, not at the primary air entrance that you
>     correctly cover with sand.   Check all around.   Put sand around
>     the base of the metal can.   You can also try moist sand.   
>     Please let me know your results (because I am still learning).
>
>     2.  Have you experimented with slighly smaller diameter of the
>     concentrator hole in the top of the metal can?
>
>     3.  Also, a few more inches of height between the concentrator top
>     and the bottom of the pot would allow for more time for more
>     turbulence.
>
>     4.  Additional photos or videos from other angles and of the
>     individual part would be useful.
>
>     In general, fabulous work.   I suspect that you will find further
>     ways to improve the results. Some ways will be beneficial.  
>     Others will be good but not worth incorporating.
>
>     Looking forward to hearing more of your activities with TLUD
>     combustion.
>
>     Paul
>
>
>     Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
>     Email:psanders at ilstu.edu <mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu>
>     Skype:   paultlud    Phone:+1-309-452-7072 <tel:+1%20309-452-7072>
>     Website:www.drtlud.com <http://www.drtlud.com>
>
>
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