[Stoves] Fwd: Full cooking with minimal TLUD stove --- Re: Rebecca Vermeer sent you a video: "Cooking Performance of Eco-Kalan Stainless Steel TLUD Stove, March 13, 2017"
Paul Anderson
psanders at ilstu.edu
Tue Mar 21 21:28:51 CDT 2017
Rebecca,
Using two or more different stoves (stove stacking) can be very useful.
What are the comparative prices of the Eco-Kalan-C and the TLUD (which
you said is $10)?
And what are the other important differences? Especially mention fire
power (which one is more heat, and by how much, estimate percentage is
fine).
Paul
Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: psanders at ilstu.edu
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: www.drtlud.com
On 3/21/2017 1:49 PM, Rebecca A. Vermeer wrote:
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Cooking Performance of Eco-Kalan Stainless Steel TLUD Stove, Nilat-an,
> March 13, 2017
>
> https://youtu.be/oUbbiEcN7Rc
>
> Cooking Performance of Eco-Kalan Stainless Steel TLUD Stove, Nilat-an,
> March 13, 2017
>
> https://goo.gl/photos/F2b9smQ1Vi8gS3AW6
>
>
> Dear Tony, Neil and All,
>
> Thank you for your suggestions and encouragement.
>
>
> 1. I have opted to make the TinCan TLUD stove into stalnless steel
> (0.4mm) for a total cost of about US$10 for the entire set up
> (including bricks, parilla, kalan, plain 2" riser and handle). Steel
> and labour (local tinsmith) account for 60% of total costs.
>
>
> 2. Two canisters each containing over 1 kg dry wood fuel will cook 2
> dishes - meat with noodles/vegetables and fish. Cooking rice, which
> requires the "palangay" method (cooking with embers), is best done
> with the Eco-Kalan stove. The embers in the TLUD stove are too far
> from the pot bottom to be effective. Hence, charcoal is collected for
> other uses.
>
>
> 3. Given the choice of being able to use only 1 stove, all 6 members
> of my household who cook in an outdoor kitchen at Felipa Beach prefer
> the Eco-Kalan-C to the TLUD stove. However, they don't mind owning
> both stoves if money is not an issue and precut and dry fuel is
> available all the time,
>
>
> 4. A simple 2" hollow riser is better than one with a fan or
> propeller at the bottom. Identical hollow risers can be produced at
> the local shop but not so with the fan or propeller type.
>
>
> 5. The handle is great -- cools off very quickly.
>
>
> As always, all your comments are much appreciated.
>
>
> Rebecca
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 9 Mar 2017 at 2:38, Tony Vovers wrote: > Hopefully if this thread
> suggestions are followed the "best" tin can setup can be defined and
> some simple tools to hot swap cans. A straight metal rod/thick fence
> wire passed through the secondary air holes ought to be all you need
> from the looks of things. It is the only tool I usually use for
> lifting and replacing the pot support concentrator on the Chinese
> stove, and the stove body itself for carrying the stove and tipping
> out the char into a quenching tin. Sometimes I use a pair of pliers.
> Neil Taylor
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From: *"TONY VOVERS" <vovers1 at gmail.com>
> *To: *"DISCUSSION OF BIOMASS COOKING STOVES"
> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> *Sent: *Thursday, March 9, 2017 2:38:15 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [Stoves] Full cooking with minimal TLUD stove --- Re:
> Rebecca Vermeer sent you a video: "Cooking Performance of Eco-Kalan
> Tincan TLUD Stove, Feb 6, 2017"
>
> Rebecca
>
> Thanks so much for your postings
> - what I especially like is the versatility and simplicity of the
> materials and the designs.
>
> The base material is clay so does not require machine shop and
> specialist metal workers.
> The base unit looks like it is still a rocket stove so those without
> time/energy to manage the fuel can still cook with sticks.
>
> The Tin cans for TLUD probably won't last too long but seem simple
> enough to be easily remade.
> Sand as a valve for primary air is a great idea.
>
> Hopefully if this thread suggestions are followed the "best" tin can
> setup can be defined and some simple tools to hot swap cans.
>
> Please do keep this thread going, I can see the importance of fuel
> management is again rising to the top of the list of needs for a
> usable gasifier.
>
> Your Eco-Kalan website is well structured for information including a
> section on sustainable gathering of wood, the topics of coppicing and
> pollarding do not get enough airtime in the stove community.
>
> http://www.eco-kalan.com/index.php?index
>
> Just a few words of support - thanks for the effort and quality of the
> feedback and an interesting development on the eco-Kalan product as a
> gasifier.
>
> TonyV
>
> Tony Vovers
> +1 281 7381000 (VOIP)
> +62 (813) 3888 9062 (HP)
>
> On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 11:10 PM, Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu
> <mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu>> wrote:
>
> Dear all,
>
> Rebecca's message (below) merits special attention. Very
> informative about a low-cost variation of TLUD stoves. Low cost
> because it is with a clay pot support, hollow clay brick for
> primary air entry with sand for air control, and one or two tin
> cans. I ask Rebecca to tell us the cost of her TLUD stoves. I
> suspect that you are under US$ 5. !!!!! (not counting the bench
> / platform upon which the stoves are placed for convenient
> operation height for those who cook while standing up. But the
> stove is short enough by itself to appeal to those who cook while
> seated or squatting.)
>
> She is past the stages of proof of concept and the proof of
> acceptance-by-cooks. Some fine tuning remains, but this
> arrangement is close to ready to be into some (further) pilot
> studies.
>
> Notes (that only make sense to those who have viewed Rebecca's
> materials):
> 1. Advantage of a densified fuel ("log pieces"), but wood in a
> taller tincan would do the same job and same time. Also your
> comment about the male cooks (army) and fuel preparation help
> point out that fuel preparation can be a new employment for some
> unskilled workers. Fuel type and supply are very important, but
> almost always any small complaints can be resolved with a little
> attention to fuel handling.
>
> 2. I am not 100% sure of how the top (concentrator) lid is made
> and placed onto the fuel can. (I suspect usage of the can opener
> that leaves the lip on the lid. Highly economical use of the tin
> can.) Instead or alternatively, a separate concentrator lid
> could be made from a metal dinnerware plate or improvised easily
> with a tinsmith.
>
> 3. Video and photos show TWO stoves that I will call "short one"
> (on the left) and "taller one" on the right which is simply raised
> on a few bricks. I like the taller one because it has space for
> and uses a 3+ inch riser (the second tin can, best seen in the
> still photos before it is put into place.)
>
> 4. About that riser, I suggest that you turn it upside down.
> (or completely cut out both ends). And consider larger diameter
> cans for risers. Experimentation is needed. Please report what
> you find to work best (or to not work well).
>
> 5. There are still issues of safety, such as contact / movement
> of the very hot single-wall metal pieces (TLUD fuel canister,
> riser, etc). Tongs or handles will eventually appear, adding
> convenience but increasing the price. This will be adjusted
> according to the prefernces of the stove users, and there should
> NOT be requirements that these stoves have handles, etc,. thereby
> delaying the availability of these stoves to people who could want
> them.
>
> 6. And an important note about BIOCHAR in Rebecca's
> configuration: In the video, they choose to burn the charcoal,
> which is fine. But if you want to make biochar, simply remove
> the fuel canister at the end of pyrolysis, and insert a second
> tincan what was already prepared and ready for use. I think that
> this stove might have significant interest in Bangladesh with
> Mabubul's project.
>
> Congratulations to Rebecca and her team!! (I suggest that a
> condensed version of the video and photo collection might also be
> appropriate.)
>
> Everyone can enjoy reading and seeing their success!!!
>
> Paul
>
> Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
> Email:psanders at ilstu.edu <mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu>
> Skype: paultlud Phone:+1-309-452-7072 <tel:+1%20309-452-7072>
> Website:www.drtlud.com <http://www.drtlud.com>
>
> On 3/8/2017 4:03 AM, Rebecca A. Vermeer wrote:
>
> Cooking Performance of Eco-Kalan TinCan TLUD Stoves with Wood
> Briquettes & Sticks, March 1, 2017
>
> https://youtu.be/ESiEWSBnewI
>
> NOTE: WHEN VIEWING A PHOTO ALBUM, LEFT CLICK ON THE i icon TO SEE
> THE INFO DETAILS OF EACH PHOTO.
>
> March 1, 2017 Broken Alder wood puck briquettes in widemouth
> Eco-Kalan Tincan TLUD stove - Cooking Peas Phase 1
>
> https://goo.gl/photos/LfSkQkeRHeYxmZKYA
>
> March 1, 2017 Ipil-Ipil Sticks in narrow mouth TinCan TLUD stove
> with riser - Cooking Peas Phase 2
>
> https://goo.gl/photos/9zttbuSzjLkQgb7V8
>
>
>
> *Dear Paul, Ron, Julien, Jon and All,*
>
> Thank you for your encouraging comments and valuable
> suggestions on the Feb. 6, 2017 video, "Cooking Performance of
> Eco-Kalan TinCan TLUD Stove . In the above March 1, 2017 video
> and photo albums, I responded to your comments as follows:
>
>
> 1. Jon's comment on squirting kerosene on the top of the fuel
> bed which then drips down to the bottom:
>
> The kindlings we use for starting a fire are now dipped into 25 ml
> of kerosene and placed on top of the fuel bed.
>
> 2. Paul's and Julien's suggestion to turn down the flame.
>
> This has been achieved by:
>
> a) Sealing with sand all areas of primary air entry including the
> base of the TinCan which touch the parilla; the back opening and
> sides of the parilla; and a small but adjustable opening at the
> front end of the parilla
>
>
> b) Loading the minimum required fuel.
>
>
> c) Reducing the concentrator hole diameter and maintaining
> that same hole diameter for the riser.
>
> Of the above 3 measures, having a small but adjustable opening is
> the simplest way to control the flame.
>
> 3. Paul's request for more photos -- please see the above photo
> albums.
>
> 4. Ron's query on my cooks' views on the TLUD vs. Traditional
> approaches
>
> My female cooks have been using the Eco-Kalan-C for many years and
> therefore, are hard to wean away from the stove that allows them
> to do all their cooking effectively and use any type of found fuel
> year round at Felipa Beach, Dumaguete City, Negros Island,
> Philippines. They dislike cutting or sawing wood into prescribed
> lengths for my TLUD stoves. But since male cooks from the
> Philippine Army took on some of the cooking and most of the wood
> fuel preparations, all my cooks (males and females) now like to
> use the TinCan TLUD stove for short time cooking (within 1 hour)
> for dishes such as Pancit, Bam-I, soups, vegetables, small pieces
> or ground meats "because the TinCan stove (with dry wood and
> kerosene as fire starter) is easy to light, no smoke and fast
> cooking". For long time cooking (> 1 hour), they prefer to use the
> Eco-Kalan-C as adding fuel when needed is very easy. For frying,
> my cooks prefer to use the Eco-Kalan-C because they can adjust the
> temperature of the cooking oil easily by taking out or adding fuel
> to the fire.
>
> Since I introduced Wilvaco's (Willamete Valley Company) alder
> wood briquettes to my cooks for use in the Eco-Kalan-C and the
> Eco-Kalan TinCan TLUD stove (see video and photo albums below), I
> have noticed significant increase in their enthusiasm for and
> enjoyment from cooking. A fuel can really make a stove tic. The
> importance of a good and dry solid fuel motivates me
> to participate in finding ways to make wood briquettes
> commercially viable for everyone.
>
> Warm regards from Felipa Beach,
>
> Rebecca Vermeer
>
> Eco-Kalan Project in the Philippines
>
> ________________________________________________________
>
>
> _____________________________-
> Previous message is below.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From: *"PAUL ANDERSON" <psanders at ilstu.edu>
> <mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu>
> *To: *"DISCUSSION OF BIOMASS COOKING STOVES"
> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> <mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>, "REBECCA VERMEER"
> <ravermeer at telus.net> <mailto:ravermeer at telus.net>
> *Sent: *Thursday, February 23, 2017 11:37:06 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [Stoves] Rebecca Vermeer sent you a video: "Cooking
> Performance of Eco-Kalan Tincan TLUD Stove"
>
> Rebecca,
>
> I agree with Ron that it is a very good video. I am very glad to
> see your accomplishments.
>
> My comments are intended to be constructive.
>
> 1. Your fire is a bit high. That indicates some leakage of
> primary air. I suspect that it is where the can is sitting on
> the hollow brick, not at the primary air entrance that you
> correctly cover with sand. Check all around. Put sand around
> the base of the metal can. You can also try moist sand.
> Please let me know your results (because I am still learning).
>
> 2. Have you experimented with slighly smaller diameter of the
> concentrator hole in the top of the metal can?
>
> 3. Also, a few more inches of height between the concentrator top
> and the bottom of the pot would allow for more time for more
> turbulence.
>
> 4. Additional photos or videos from other angles and of the
> individual part would be useful.
>
> In general, fabulous work. I suspect that you will find further
> ways to improve the results. Some ways will be beneficial.
> Others will be good but not worth incorporating.
>
> Looking forward to hearing more of your activities with TLUD
> combustion.
>
> Paul
>
>
> Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
> Email:psanders at ilstu.edu <mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu>
> Skype: paultlud Phone:+1-309-452-7072 <tel:+1%20309-452-7072>
> Website:www.drtlud.com <http://www.drtlud.com>
>
>
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