[Stoves] Is this Off Topic?? Fwd: Re: [biochar] Where to discuss STOVES AND CARBON offsets and drawdown

[Paul Anderson]

Crispin,

I have not heard the word eschatology since I was a student in a 
theological seminary in the late 1960s.   Definition from Synonym.com:
>
>
>       1. eschatology (n.)
>
> the branch of theology that is concerned with such final things as 
> death and Last Judgment; Heaven and Hell; the ultimate destiny of 
> humankind
>
Very appropriate choice of words as atmospheric CO2 levels rise and 
could well contribute to (what you wrote):.
>   to turn the whole planet into a verdant garden‎ of delight. 
But probably not "delight".   More like a "hothouse garden eventually 
supporting less than half the number of the world's current population" 
(which means the end of standards of living as known today, but maninly 
suffered through environmental disruption, war, famine and disease 
inflicted on our descendants, unless drawdown is accomplished.)

Your implied comparison between opinions by contemporaries of witches in 
the 1600s and current opinions of scientists in the 2000s is a bit of a 
streach.    I'll interprete that as an attempt at humor. :-)

[NOTE:   I EXPECT that this message will unfortunately be taken as proof 
that this Subject is "Off Topic" for the Stoves Listserv. Sorry.  I am 
looking for a place to take this conversation, but with emphasis on the 
pro-action about carbon drawdown, not the lamenting and gnashing of 
teeth aspects of eschatology.  ]

Paul

Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu
Skype:   paultlud    Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website:  www.drtlud.com

On 9/12/2017 4:48 AM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott wrote:
> Dear Nikhil
>
> Doesn't Sujatha's project making char while cooking and selling it to 
> a foundry to reduce coal consumption ‎fall into your definition? That 
> is specifically CDM funded to offset a fossil fuel in current use.
>
> An additional point missing from your cogent analysis is that 
> increased CO2 emissions decrease the need by plants for water 
> resulting not only in a higher growth rate, but extending the water 
> supply. The only specific number I have for that is 'dry lands' (Sahel 
> etc) ‎showing that for each 1% increase in CO2 concentration there is 
> a soil moisture increase of 0.68% because the vegetation is more water 
> efficient.
>
> Nowhere in the calculus of releasing CO2 from all sources is this 
> general greening included. 'Sustainable' implies 'static and no worse' 
> whereas other terms could be used such as 'net beneficial'.
>
> The idea that we are somehow tasked to 'keep nature static' is 
> misplaced. We could just as easily take our role to be to turn the 
> whole planet into a verdant garden‎ of delight. 'Nature' is much more 
> capable and resilient than is generally taught, and so are we.
>
> Carbon trading is essentially selling indulgences inspired by 
> climate-based eschatology. ‎ In the 1600's the consensus held it was 
> all the fault of witches.
>
> We can do better...
>
> Regards
> Crispin
>
> Tom:
>
> I wonder where you have seen stove projects financed by "carbon 
> credits based on fossil fuel offsets." I am not aware of any.
>
> To my knowledge, CDM and voluntary carbon projects are for reductions 
> in CO2 and other qualified GHG emissions WITHIN THE PROJECT BOUNDARIES 
> as approved by either the inter-governmental authorities (CDM) or 
> self-proclaimed authorities (Gold Standard).
>
> There is no specific requirement that the GHG emission reductions come 
> from changes in fossil fuels use, UNLESS such use is in the 
> "baseline". I know of no such stove project, though I would very much 
> like to see one - e.g., improved coal heating stoves Asia or South 
> Africa.
>
> When the baseline - existing and future use in absence of the 
> intervention - is only biomass, the requirement I am aware of is that 
> reduction in CO2 (rather, all Kyoto gases) emissions have to be 
> adjusted for fNRB - "fraction Non-Renewable Biomass:" If biomass fuel 
> use within the project boundaries is currently deemed to be 
> "renewable" or "sustainable", it is assumed to be "carbon-neutral".
>
> This is an anti-poor, irrational requirement. It leads to all kinds of 
> gaming and discourages or eliminates carbon finance for "efficient 
> biomass stoves" projects. But this is the irony of IPCC calculus - 
> biomass is assumed to be renewable, so fuel emissions from biomass are 
> to be reported not in the emissions inventories but only in LULUCF 
> (Land Use, Land Use Changes, and Forestry) if they lead to deforestation.
>
> I would be more than happy to generate opposition to this ideological 
> decision by IPCC, that is then followed under CDM. It does not matter 
> where the CO2 absorbed by new vegetation comes from -- fossil fuels or 
> biomass fuels. Similarly, the CO2 emission reduction by lower biomass 
> use should not be deducted for some presumed "renewable biomass 
> fraction" (i.e., 1-fNRB).
>
> It is now nearly 30 years since AES Corporation around here created an 
> offsets project by investing in a Guatemala forestry project to offset 
> the emissions from its coal or gas power project in Connecticut. (How 
> a forestry offset project in Guatemala allowed emissions in the USA to 
> increase 
> <http://www.redd-monitor.org/2009/10/09/how-a-forestry-offset-project-in-guatemala-allowed-emissions-in-the-usa-to-increase/>, 
> REDD-Monitor 9 October 2009. That was a valid "fossil fuel offset" 
> project, though as the REDD-Monitor piece concludes,
>
>
>     "For at least the first ten years of the AES-CARE project,
>     emissions from the power plant vastly exceeded the carbon
>     sequestered in the AES-CARE project. At the same time, CARE
>     diverted resources from poverty alleviation to carbon monitoring.
>     Given that the project had been running since the 1970s it’s is
>     difficult to see how the project could possibily be considered to
>     be additional. In effect AES wrote a cheque which allowed
>     emissions to continue."
>
>
> There were similar projects in the 1990s under bilateral initiatives 
> such as USIJI (US Initiative for Joint Implementation), but after 
> Kyoto became effective, such experimentation stopped. All official 
> carbon credit projects (under CDM) and all voluntary carbon projects 
> that I am aware of were simply based on emissions within project 
> boundaries.
>
> Stove projects are relatively new, and as I discovered today from 
> Ci-Dev, UK buys credits from stove projects and retires them (i.e., 
> plain grants), while Sweden and Switzerland buy credits (based on 
> fNRB) and uses them toward national commitments for GHG emission 
> reductions. They would be hard-pressed to argue that it is only the 
> fossil CO2 that they are using these credits against; there are 
> non-fossil fuel GHG emissions in their national inventories.
>
> I come from the old school thought in science and law - before talking 
> substance, get the process (incl. definitions) right.
>
> Nikhil
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Nikhil Desai
> (US +1) 202 568 5831
> /Skype: nikhildesai888/
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 11:35 AM, <tmiles at trmiles.com 
> <mailto:tmiles at trmiles.com>> wrote:
>
>     Paul,
>
>     This topic is relevant. Several stove suppliers have made the
>     investment in certification and third party verification of carbon
>     credits based on fossil fuel offsets. If biochar is included it
>     could provide additional benefits which we should account for even
>     if there is currently little or no monetary benefit for carbon
>     sequestration. Some stove suppliers have created carbon offset
>     markets based on their own (sometimes internal) verification
>     system for biochar and sold the “offsets” to voluntary
>     contributors. If this is going to become a credible “voluntary”
>     standard than the protocol for measuring and accounting for
>     biochar must be consistent.
>
>     Tom
>
>
>
>
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