[Stoves] [biochar] Where to discuss STOVES AND CARBON offsets and drawdown

Mon Sep 11 15:19:14 CDT 2017

Paul, Andrew:

I am somewhat baffled at your exchange. I do not know the history of prior
discussions on TLUD and biochar on this list. However, it seems to me that
a discussion on stoves with char residuals can be conducted ONLY in the
context of carbon credits, without getting into the question of how much
"climate change benefits" are provided, and can be useful.

Let me try to explain. I have strong support for raising public and private
funds to popularize usable energy technologies for the poor, for transition
to "modern energy" (fuel-independent, it's the process that is more
important than the primary substances).

"Efficient" cookstoves with low-cost local fuels happen to be one such
class if "modern energy" technologies. The issue, to me, is pleasing the
cooks and consumers of foods and beverages, not "ancillary social
benefits".

The computation, certification, and monetization of these ancillary social
benefits may require high-cost middlemen. They may also entail reliance on
legally indefensible instruments and intellectually indefensible theories.

I hold that promoting actual USE of "better biomass cookstoves" is more
important than these alleged "ancillary social benefits". Quantification by
intermediaries has become a cottage industry of beancounting that produces
more smoke than usable warmth or light. Their high costs and political,
legal or scientific uncertainties deter the penetration rate of what users
find acceptable. They may also generate conflicts over metrics and
measurement tools for cookstoves and may create incentives to game the
methods. (For instance, I find the idea of having just one stove and
destroying traditional stove or forswearing "stacking" unacceptable to
users.)

I do not care how much fuel used (may not be good quality wood) is fNRB
('fraction non-renewable biomass"). I do not care how the CO2 reductions
are computed (though I do care that non-CO2 reductions are ignored from
"global environmental" viewpoint and would argue for 20-year GWP). I would
like to see a simplified process blessed under national laws that delivers
money to high-quality projects that lead to greater use in relevant
contexts.

This view may be debated on this list, no? Without going into whether
biochar is the most cost-effective means of CDR or LPG for aDALYs?

It is 25 years since Rio 92 and the first CO2 offset project (nominally,
not under any legal scheme; AES tree plantation in Belize). The Gold
Standard Foundation has recently advanced a methodology for assigning
aDALYs and also for carbon reductions. They claim that these quantified
changes meet SDG metrics, though I cannot tell how.

I hope for more discussion. As before, I offer to share my views on some
documents directly with those interested as I finish my reading. For now,
note that Gold Standard is ruling out charcoal stoves for its "saleable
health product".

Nikhil

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nikhil Desai
(US +1) 202 568 5831 <(202)%20568-5831>
*Skype: nikhildesai888*

On Sun, Sep 10, 2017 at 5:27 PM, Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu> wrote:

> Andrew,
>
> Again you are correct about carbon credits.  But you are trying to UN-link
> stove carbon credits from the issues of climate change and Drawdown, about
> which we must also discuss these char-producing (and very clean burning)
> TLUD stoves.
>
> The readers of the Stoves Listservs and the moderators (all very great
> people) have repeatedly rejected that the drawdown / climate change issues
> should be fully aired on this Stoves Listserv.
>
> Please realize the difference.  Case 1:  Some charcoal  stoves (as in the
> Uga Stove in  Uganda that received great praise for being the first carbon
> credit / Gold Standard project for stoves) earn 1 or 1.5 carbon  credits
> per year for using LESS charcoal, but that charcoal  is STILL produced very
> poorly via traditional char-making methods.     Case 2:  The TLUD stoves
> (as in the ChampionTLUD in India) is earning 4 (as in FOUR) carbon credits
> per year for using LESS biomas (wood) fuel from sustainable sources AND
> YIELDING CHARCOAL that has economic value AND value for carbon credits (2
> of those 4 carbon credits).
>
> Simply bringing up this previous paragraph is pushing the limits of what
> is the purpose of the Stoves Listserv.   And if the purpose were to be
> expanded, we would lose some Stoves readers.  I am looking for where people
> are already discussing drawdown and climate change AND would welcome the
> stoves  contribution.
>
> All comments are welcome.
>
> Paul
>
> Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
> Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu
> Skype:   paultlud    Phone: +1-309-452-7072
> Website:  www.drtlud.com
>
> On 9/10/2017 2:02 PM, Andrew Heggie wrote:
>
>> On 10 September 2017 at 18:53, Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> Andrew,
>>>
>>> You have stated (correctly) the precise reason that I do NOT want to
>>> conduct
>>> the needed discussions on  the Stoves Listserv.
>>>
>>> The needed discussion is regardless of whether the TLUD stoves are used
>>> for
>>> making biochar or for sequestering char or for simply needing less wood
>>> for
>>> the cooking tasks.
>>>
>>
>> I'm surprised at your reply Paul, I don't understand why you feel that
>> my reason is precisely why you don't want to discuss carbon credits on
>> here.
>>
>> Carbon credits exist just as much as other subsidies which are
>> applicable to stoves.
>>
>> Andrew
>>
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>>
>
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