[Stoves] Fwd: stoves and credits again

Nikhil Desai pienergy2008 at gmail.com
Mon Sep 25 12:59:30 CDT 2017


Paul:

What a RADICAL idea -- "FUEL efficiency measured by communities, not by
single stoves."

Thrilled. Thank you.

Gets to the heart of the "stove performance" orthodoxy -- if a stove is not
used, then there are no gains, and the higher the utilization rate, greater
the returns on capital investments.

We should also clamor for "PM2.5 concentrations by communities, not hourly
emission rates by single stoves."

That is just about all one needs to say to put a lie to the EPA/WHO/ISO
super-fanaticism on "clean cookstoves".

Nikhil


------------------------
Nikhil Desai
(US +1) 202 568 5831 <(202)%20568-5831>
*Skype: nikhildesai888*

On Sun, Sep 24, 2017 at 5:26 PM, Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu> wrote:

> Philip, Tom and all,
>
> Philip is mostly correct.  Actually wood takes up (has) too much WEIGHT.
> Wood has 3 times (or more, if the char is poorly made) the ENERGY value of
> charcoal that could come from that char.   But it has about 5 times the DRY
> weight of the char, plus there can be 20 to 50% moisture  content to make
> the wood even heavier.
>
> And the charcoal has  almost double (30 vs. 16) the energy content by
> weight, but char is so much lighter per unit of volume.  So the trucks are
> buldging upward and sideways with the sacks of charcoal strapped to them.
> Weight of charcoal is not a problem for most transport.
>
> Apart from the transportation issue, I believe that the appeal of charcoal
> is that it does not smoke (not much).   CO is invisible and deadly, but the
> people learn to cook on the balcony or keep some  air flowing.  And it does
> not turn the bottom of the pots black.
>
> Charcoal is an attractive fuel.   Too bad it is made by processes that
> throw away 2/3rds of the energy.    (So, let's promote TLUD stroves and
> collect the char for sale to the urban folks.  Only one third of the
> cutting of wood/forest.)
>
>  So, if 100,000 households (mainly in rural or peri-urban areas) would use
> TLUDs, the resultant char would equal to the energy needed for an
> approximately equal number of households (mainly urban) that would want to
> burn charcoal.
>
> Now that would be FUEL efficiency measured by communities, not by single
> stoves.
>
> Paul
>
> Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
> Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu
> Skype:   paultlud    Phone: +1-309-452-7072 <(309)%20452-7072>
> Website:  www.drtlud.com
>
> On 9/24/2017 11:40 AM, Tom Miles wrote:
>
> That's probably why charcoal use is increasing 5% per year in SSA compared
> with wood fuel at 1% per year.
>
> T R Miles Technical Consultants Inc.
> tmiles at trmiles.com
> Sent from mobile.
>
> On Sep 24, 2017, at 8:50 AM, "plloyd at mweb.co.za" <plloyd at mweb.co.za>
> wrote:
>
> Just a thought on Sub Saharan charcoal use. As Africa urbanizes, so it
> needs energy to cook. Wood takes up too much volume, and the roads are
> primitive. So it makes sense to use charcoal. A bicycle load will keep ten
> homes cooking for a week.
> The use of char oal has everything to do with logistics and nothing to do
> with the environment.
> Philip
>
>
>
> Sent from my Huawei Mobile
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] stoves and credits again
> From: Nikhil Desai
> To: Ron Larson
> CC: Andrew Heggie ,Crispin Pemberton-Pigott ,Discussion of biomass
> cooking stoves
>
>
> Ron:
>
> What makes you believe that users of biomass-fuelled stoves are
> predominantly growers (of biomass)?
>
> Saw the figures for urban charcoal markets in Sub-Saharan Africa lately?
> Or looked at non-household cooking (in my view roughly 50% of cooking
> energy consumption worldwide)?
>
> Nikhil
>
> On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 10:54 PM, Ronal W. Larson <
> rongretlarson at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Andrew and list:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> There appears to be a win win situation here and I gather there is
>> still a vast part of equatorial Africa where annual burning  takes
>> place. However it brings me to another reason I like the idea, though
>> not the practicalities, of a householder-subsistance farmer being paid
>> a subsidy funded by the developed world. The trouble is I have a
>> parochial view and not a good worldview of what types of persons
>> depend on biomass fuelled stoves. Are they also predominantly growers?
>>
>>
>> *[RWL9:  Yes to Andrew’s last question.  I disagree with Andrew calling
>> himself “parochial” - when he supports (as do I) the ethics of “a subsidy
>> funded by the developed world”.*
>>
>>
>> *[RWL10:   Agree totally.  And I think this is what will eventually kill
>> the geoengineering technology that is often placed ahead of biochar -
>> BECCS.  In BECCS, as with “clean coal”, the CO2 from combustion (never
>> pyrolysis) is placed, as  liquid, deep underground.   Major expenses needed
>> to protect the world’s soil are not needed for biochar.  Soil quality is
>> closely linked to carbon content - and biochar does this with no penalty -
>> while apparently being the cleanest and most efficient of all possible
>> solid-fuel stoves.*
>>
>> *`Andrew - thanks for your above rebuttal to Crispin.*
>>
>>
>> *Ron *
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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