[Stoves] stoves and credits again

Paul Anderson psanders at ilstu.edu
Wed Sep 27 22:23:46 CDT 2017


I am going to agree with Ron about the role of char production.

Todd's stoves with fans are in the category that I call "fan-jet" or 
high vortex stoves, along the  lines of the Biolite and  Philips and ACE 
stoves.   There are similarities with  TLUD-FA stoves, but the 
differences dominate.  Congratulations that they  burn up the char, 
assuming that is what you desire.   And users can continually drop in  
more fuel, which is "trickle feeding"and requires user attention.   
TLUDs are batch units.

About Crispin's notes on Indonesia  testing  with placing the produced 
char on top  of the next batch of fuel, I have some reservations such as 
overflowing of the char.   Also, apart from the lab testing, is there 
evidence that the Indonesian cooks are actually using the stove as it 
was being used in the lab?

These stoves can be operated in  different ways.   How many of each of 
those units (Todd's or the Indonesian ones) are in daily use in 
households?   I hope that the numbers of users are VERY high. Please 
send details.

Paul

Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu
Skype:   paultlud    Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website:  www.drtlud.com

On 9/27/2017 8:18 PM, Todd Albi wrote:
> Crispin is correct.  Running TLUD's in efficient cook stoves produce 
> little, if any char.  Our most efficient Super Dragon Fan Stove or Teg 
> Fan Stove, or the Cook Air Fan grill we offer leave only small amounts 
> of fine ash and have /no value producing char/.  In fact, one could 
> contend that a cook stove that produces lots of char is actually 
> impeding both ventilation and heat transfer to the pot.
>
> Our natural draft Scout trekking gasifier and larger natural insulated 
> Hunter chimney stove also leave primarily ash and extremely little 
> char, the fuel is maximized for cooking, not char production.  We'd 
> contend efficient cooking and making char is two opposing value outcomes.
>
> Regards,
>
> Todd Albi, SilverFire
>
>
>>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 3:30 PM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott 
> <crispinpigott at outlook.com <mailto:crispinpigott at outlook.com>> wrote:
>
>     Dear Ron
>
>     *>**No one would ever want to run a TLUD without making char. 
>     They do horribly in combusting the char. *
>
>     Our experiences differ.  We received stoves for testing the in CSI
>     Pilot in Central Java that not only made char then burned it and
>     the char could be forwarded to the next replication of the cooking
>     sequence. Stoves that could do that were, according to the rules
>     of engagement, tested with a fuel load that included recycled fuel
>     from a previous burn, during all evaluations. Fuel consumption is
>     the requirement for additional fuel sourced outside the cooking
>     system needed to replicate a cooking sequence in any of a series
>     of identical replications, save the first. The ‘save the first’
>     refers to stoves such as the TLUD’s that can burn charcoal, which
>     can use remnant fuel in the next replication of the test. All
>     stick-burning stoves were tested in this manner as well, if they
>     could use partially combusted fuel.
>
>     The lab staff in Yogyakarta, in spite of the relative simplicity
>     of the lab, were able to get very tight groupings of test results
>     even though the ‘forwarded fuel’ varied a bit in mass and composition.
>
>     It can be argued that the correct assessment for such a series of
>     test replicates is to average the entire set into a single result,
>     rather than ‘averaging’ the averages produced individually for
>     each test. I favour this approach as it has a sound logical basis.
>
>         PL >>I am not certain of the physical meaning of the (1-e2)
>         equation.
>
>     >*[RWL6:  I hope you will try to learn of its importance.
>      (Essentially important only in tier rankings.) *
>
>     **
>
>     Tier ranks have nothing to do with that equation. The formula is a
>     postulate with no sound physical basis. That is why no examples
>     could be found outside the WBT using it as an efficiency
>     calculation. Please refer to Tami’s recent categorical
>     re-statement of her message earlier this year.
>
>     It is only ‘important’ to those who wish a 25% efficient stove to
>     be reported as having an efficiency of 50%. It is more important
>     that such pseudo-science be stopped in its tracks.
>
>     Regards
>
>     Crispin
>
>
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