[Stoves] "Charcrete" by Trollworks, LLC - Photo Link Demonstrations
Ronal W. Larson
rongretlarson at comcast.net
Sat Sep 30 15:55:09 CDT 2017
List, cc Scott and Gordon
1. Re charcrete, the postulated/possible advantage in replacing wood chips with charcoal, is that it is lighter and (may be) stronger. Down the road there could be carbon credits. I’m still hoping someone out there is able to give it a try.
2. Re zerosion, don’t try to look it up by googling; has over weird meanings. When I googled for the combination “Gordon West zerosion”, I got these hits first:
http://www.gwpaz.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/November-2012-Newsletter.pdf <http://www.gwpaz.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/November-2012-Newsletter.pdf>
http://www.gilacommunity.net/viewtopic.php?t=14477 <http://www.gilacommunity.net/viewtopic.php?t=14477> (much more on chipcrete)
and about a half-dozen more on the first two pages. These show the connection between the two names and different (successful) applications.
3, The issue for this list is - can there be stove occasions where replacing paper or chips with char gives a better product (and this could include Zerosion - since we generally want [stove output] char in the ground).
So thanks to Scott for the follow-up. I don’t know the meaning of the III and VI - but I’m sure continuous TLUDs and other char-making devices I previously said a bit about have similar Roman numeral identifiers.
I am sure Gordon is ready and willing to answer questions on either the former products or the potential charcrete. Note Gordon’s knowledge on some cement types I have never heard of - in the second URL above.
This response has nothing to do with Gordon’s question today on co-combusting char and wood - which I will comment on soon.
Ron
> On Sep 28, 2017, at 6:45 PM, Scott Zager <scott.zager at wildlands.biz> wrote:
>
> Ron et al.:
> Please see photo links below to see demonstrations of the potential uses for charcrete in building materials and erosion control;
>
> III. Charcrete: https://photos.app.goo.gl/3IxpdKMNL8UZmoIN2 <https://photos.app.goo.gl/3IxpdKMNL8UZmoIN2> (substitute Biochar for woodchips illustrated in photo)
>
> VI. Zerosion: https://photos.app.goo.gl/n0gixHvOnwMUt1HB2 <https://photos.app.goo.gl/n0gixHvOnwMUt1HB2>
>
> Scott C. Zager, Plant Ecologist
> Wildlands Ecological Services
> P.O. Box 305
> Silver City, NM 88062-0305
> Business cell: (651) 261-2398
> Email: scott.zager at wildlands.biz <mailto:scott.zager at wildlands.biz>
> www.linkedin.com/in/scottzagerwildlands/ <x-msg://249/www.linkedin.com/in/scottzagerwildlands/>
>
> There are over 20,000 species of edible plants in the world. However, just 20 species provide 90% of human food. 8“Plants for a Future <http://www.pfaf.org/user/Default.aspx>.” PFAF. 2012. Accessed: May 17, 2015. http://www.pfaf.org/user/Default.aspx <http://www.pfaf.org/user/Default.aspx>
>
>
>
> From: Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org <mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org>] On Behalf Of Ronal W. Larson
> Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 6:23 PM
> To: Discussion of biomass <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org <mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>>; Jock Gill <jock at jockgill.com <mailto:jock at jockgill.com>>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] The goals of my TLUD work
>
> Jock, cc list, Bill Knauss and Gordon West
>
> A bit ago, I told a little of my stove-oriented trip to Silver City, New Mexico and to a small town in Mexico. That was mostly on a continuous TLUD. I don’t think I mentioned (or mentioned much) an idea for a new (to me) potential stove material. The new potential material is (for now) called “charcrete” (maybe with a hyphen: char-crete”).
>
> This idea is based on many years of Bill and Gordon working with a similar material called “papercrete”. I am writing this with zero experience but a few hours of conversation with Gordon and Bill and I have three of these papercrete blocks. To the best of our knowledge - no-one has made one with the purpose of using the material in a stove.
>
> Of course the three of us are thinking TLUDs, but it should/could be more generally applicable. The reason we see potential promise is having seen how well papercrete holds up in an intense fire.
>
> The reasons for thinking char could replace paper are:
> a. The porous nature of char makes it a better insulator and lighter weight.
> b. It is likely more available globally, near the need, than paper
> c. It is possible that the pressure needed for papercrete blocks may not be needed for charcrete blocks.
> d. Charcoal in other building applications have demonstrated improved economics and strength.
> e. The papercrete blocks have stood up well under extreme fire conditions (we can forward a video clip).
> f. There are many ways that this could be carried out commercially - all the way to self-manufacture of a stove - a common practice around the world
> g. The diameter and heights can be readily varied to fit the needs of all types of families. Number 10 cans are great but not for a variety of family sizes.
>
> One would expect some combustion of the charred chips under long term use. But much of the strength can remain - both where char has disappeared but cement remains and for the majority of the block where the char is expected (cross-your-fingers) to remain.
>
> I believe this could be a patentable idea - but Bill and Gordon (like Jock) think it more important to get people working on it. So this is to ask all who can to try to make a block or two (if not a full stove).. There are many types of cement and many types of charred chips. We can supply some ideas for number, location, and sizes of the needed holes for both primary and secondary air.
>
> The reason for introducing this via responding to Jock’s email is to be able to add a note on the potential for charcrete on each of Jock’s dozen items below - and because it seems likely Jock will see some potential AND because we like Jock’s overall educational motivation.
>
> see more below.
>
> On Sep 28, 2017, at 9:30 AM, Jock Gill <jock at jockgill.com <mailto:jock at jockgill.com>> wrote:
>
> Here are the basic goals I have for my TLUD development work:
>
> 1. Achieve as long a period of blue flames as possible;
> Probably NO change, as this seems to be a function of other than the main material.
>
>
> 2. Look like a gas stove burner - aspirational;
> Maybe about the same as with any body material.
>
>
> 3. Be very low cost so teachers can afford to make it;
> Not as good as a # 10 can in this country - but maybe better in many countries.
>
>
> 4. Get pyrolysis and Biochar into schools;
> Could be satisfactory - especially as it might be safer.
>
>
> 5. Use the heat from the burning gases as completely as possible;
> Could have considerably lower radial losses
>
>
> 6. As few and as simple parts as possible;
> Perhaps only one part.
>
>
> 7. Easy and safe construction with simple tools;
> Could be essentially no tools.
>
>
> 8. No metal cutting or sharp edges;
> None, maybe the strongest difference
>
>
> 9. Best run time with the maximum yield of high quality charcoal;
> Possibly true (because of good insulation)
>
>
> 10. A clean process that has minimal negative impacts;
> Maybe.
>
>
> 11. Support Drawdown, Regenerative Agriculture, and The Circular Economy;
> Same as any TLUD
>
>
> 12. An attractive package that invites use.
> Maybe. Can be highly individualistic.
>
> Added
> 13. Least first cost and long life - maybe possible
>
>
> Biomass, Thermal energy and Carbon are too valuable to waste.
>
> What did I miss? Of course others will have different sets of goals. How much overlap will there be?
>
> RWL: My goal for a charcrete stove is much more towards the most remote villages and homes - where the only material being transported is the cement - and not much per stove. All the char can be readily obtained locally - anywhere in the world.
>
> Any thoughts on this?
>
> Ron
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jock
>
> Jock Gill
> P. O. Box 3
> Peacham, VT 05862
>
> Extract CO2 from the atmosphere!
>
>
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