[Stoves] Fwd: Forward of moderated message

Tue Jan 8 23:37:50 CST 2019

List: cc Crispin

	Below, Paul has kindly replied below to my request for answers to Crispin's question (below) on differences and new results. There is an enormous amount of data hinted at below.  I've read a lot of it - but not yet all.  There are hints here on why the good results,  but still plenty of room for more advances possible by members of this list.

	I had no trouble getting to his Dropbox means of getting to his many different files.  Please let Paul or I know if you have a problem.

	The first (018.jpg) is a better image of the flame that I forwarded earlier.   Paul notes he might need to lower the pot a bit;  I hope we can have more discussion on that topic.  Here,  Paul reminds us of (and gives credit to) the excellent early TLUD stove work by Belonio. 

	Then a paragraph (no URLS) on the lower stove components.  One surprise is some preheating of primary air.  Another - a much simplified bottom.

	Then a short paragraph (no URL) on his new fan/blower positioning.  Like the above, we could have a separate thread on this topic.

	Then a URL to nine jpg drawings of the full unit.  Paul is an expert with graphic software.

	Then a link to a 14 page Master's thesis by Australian Alli Devlin.  I thought very well don, but is missing her many citations.  I haven't tried to work it out, but looks like Paul has a Tier 5 stove; very high efficiency.  The final paragraphs make the important point that many countries suffering from a shortage of trees probably have plenty of ag wastes - that are perfect (as pellets) for TLUDs.  A strong case for the made-char going into soils as biochar.

	The final link is to a 189 page summary paper by Paul (dated today).  The stove portion is about 20 pages follow by some 20 pages on biochar.  The 14 page Alli Devlin piece is in here with some expansion.  I haven't tried to count, but there must be more than twice as many links and citations as pages.   I need still to return to dozens of leads.

	There is a lot here on hoods, health, venting vs capturing emissions, etc.   Paul has mentioned 25 papers by Dr.  Reg Preston on ag results of using biochar - mostly (all?) supplied by Paul.  Great technical data on why char-making stoves can be hugely important in developing countries.

	In sum, I believe most list members will gain a lot by devoting a few days to the rich material that Paul has provided free access to in the following reply from himself.
.

Ron

> Begin forwarded message:
> 
> From: Paul Olivier <paul.olivier at esrla.com>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Fwd: Forward of moderated message
> Date: January 7, 2019 at 2:45:07 PM MST
> To: "Ronal W. Larson" <rongretlarson at comcast.net>
> 
> Ron,
> 
> I took a Belonio burner and added to it a housing.
> This got rid of the long, candle-like flame and gave rise to a series of flamelets right under the pot.
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/bl0kzwrbqzy2u32/018.jpg?dl=0 <https://www.dropbox.com/s/bl0kzwrbqzy2u32/018.jpg?dl=0>
> Recent testing shows that this burner with housing is only 11% less efficient than a gas burner.
> However, the distance between flame outlet and the bottom of a pot could be shortened by 10 or 15 mm.
> This might improve efficiency considerably.
> With a burner housing, the secondary air is heated and routed horizontally under mild pressure at the base of the 80 burner holes.
> This effects a forced mixing of hot secondary air with hot syngas.
> 
> This burner configuration has been in place for about 5 years.
> Then I went on to put a housing around the reactor to heat primary air.
> Primary air enters tangentially at the top of the housing.
> It swirls around the reactor and moves all the way down the reactor.
> Then the hot primary comes up through the grate at the bottom of the reactor.
> The hot air coming up through the biomass dries the biomass.
> The housing has no bottom.
> The housing is simply situated on a floor tile.
> This makes it easy to access the grate for repair.
> 
> Also I changed the fan assembly.
> I got rid of the electronics used to control the speed of the fan.
> There is a simple dial in front of the fan to regulate the flow of primary air.
> As the dial is turned to restrict the flow of air, electrical consumption drops to almost zero.
> 
> These jpegs show the latest design:
> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/pf4yjyjlffnggbo/AACOOnxdQ8q1z6XmnInNOh27a?dl=0 <https://www.dropbox.com/sh/pf4yjyjlffnggbo/AACOOnxdQ8q1z6XmnInNOh27a?dl=0>
> 
> Here is a study on the emissions of CO, particulate matter and benzine of this gasifier:
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ve7ppezks8c5far/Thesis%20Alli%20Devlin.docx?dl=0 <https://www.dropbox.com/s/ve7ppezks8c5far/Thesis%20Alli%20Devlin.docx?dl=0>
> 
> Finally, take a look at this Summary paper.
> This paper summaries several studies conducted by Dr. T.R. Preston on the biochar from my gasifier:
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/wbarsaz89mvtglw/Summary.pdf?dl=0 <https://www.dropbox.com/s/wbarsaz89mvtglw/Summary.pdf?dl=0>
> This paper also explains how gasifiers and biochar fit into a larger picture of waste transformation.
> 
> Thanks.
> Paul
> 
> 
> On Tue, Jan 8, 2019 at 3:25 AM Ronal W. Larson <rongretlarson at comcast.net <mailto:rongretlarson at comcast.net>> wrote:
> Paul:
> 
> 	Your answer?
> 
> Ron
> 
>> Begin forwarded message:
>> 
>> From: Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <crispinpigott at outlook.com <mailto:crispinpigott at outlook.com>>
>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Fwd: Forward of moderated message
>> Date: January 7, 2019 at 9:47:20 AM MST
>> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org <mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>>
>> Reply-To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org <mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>>
>> 
>> Dear Ron and Andrew
>>  
>> How is this different from what Paul O has been making for several years? The quality of the workmanship is Vietnam is very high.
>>  
>> How is the fan powered?
>>  
>> Regards
>> Crispin
>>  
>>  
>> List:
>>  
>> Recently, I've had some interesting dialogs with Paul Olivier.   If you go to www.eslra.com <https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eslra.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C7f420f923765406dc09e08d674b96f7b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636824737115090128&sdata=8yCOLEjk2IThBp8f7wNXDMq%2BJepMarkvLB%2BH96fH%2BPM%3D&reserved=0>, and http://epwt.vn/en/home/ <https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fepwt.vn%2Fen%2Fhome%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C7f420f923765406dc09e08d674b96f7b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636824737115090128&sdata=p2uX%2FhMZFm7UHozeAzoeq9pvHXq9WyXO9frzBu6CpNE%3D&reserved=0> you'll find more like the content which follows (whose 1.2 MW size I hope is not too much - and perhaps Andrew can find a fix, if needed).  This sort of stove is available in Vietnam for about $75.  Mostly stainless.  
>>  
>> Paul is looking for places in other countries to hand off large scale manufacture and/or assembly.  Dies for the manufacture of parts can be obtained - at cost (Paul not in this to make money).  Paul can supply more information to anyone interested in getting into large-scale activities.  But lets be respectful of his time - general simple questions shouldn't be one-on-one.
>>  
>> But independent of that, I hope all will look carefully at the photo below (sixth from end) showing the best pyrolysis gas flame I have yet seen.  Nothing wispy about this.  I don't have all the details, but I don't recall any TLUD design like this - which clearly only has a flame just below the cookpot.  No secondary air or flame anywhere near the char-bed.  Paul has not yet calculated turn-down ratio - but it is large.  With pellets, this height stove can last for more than three hours.  With rice hulls, less than an hour.  He can fill the stove near to the top - so considerable savings on materials above the unlit fuel.
>>  
>> There are 80 small holes - giving 40 flamelets - obviously groups of 2.  What is the general principal here?  How can the hole design be changed to get 80 shorter flames?  Or 20 larger?  Or is 40 about the right number?  Should we be thinking slits?  
>>  
>> Your thoughts on Paul's advances?
>>  
>> Ron
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>  
>> From: Paul Olivier <paul.olivier at esrla.com <mailto:paul.olivier at esrla.com>>
>> Subject: updated
>> Date: January 5, 2019 at 5:11:26 PM MST
>> To: Ron Larson <rongretlarson at comcast.net <mailto:rongretlarson at comcast.net>>
>>  
>> Ron, here is a small update.
>> 
>> -- 
>> Paul A. Olivier PhD
>> 27/2bis Phu Dong Thien Vuong
>> Dalat
>> Vietnam
>> 
>> Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
>> Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
>> Skype address: Xpolivier
>> http://epwt.vn/en/home/ <https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fepwt.vn%2Fen%2Fhome%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C7f420f923765406dc09e08d674b96f7b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636824737115090128&sdata=p2uX%2FhMZFm7UHozeAzoeq9pvHXq9WyXO9frzBu6CpNE%3D&reserved=0>
>>  
>> _______________________________________________
>> Stoves mailing list
>> 
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org <mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> 
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> 
>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ <http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/>
> 
> 
> -- 
> Paul A. Olivier PhD
> 27/2bis Phu Dong Thien Vuong
> Dalat
> Vietnam
> 
> Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
> Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
> Skype address: Xpolivier
> http://epwt.vn/en/home/ <http://epwt.vn/en/home/>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20190108/f5bc000c/attachment.html>