[Stoves] SUBSIDY for new CO2e emissions tops US$150 per ton

Mon May 27 03:58:05 CDT 2019

Nikhil,

My remarks were directed toward what appeared to me to be a promotion of fossil fuels on a biomass stoves list, which to me is not appropriate.  I intended no lecture on economics.  Why do you promote fossil fuels on a biomass stoves list?  

I will need to consider further Dr. Anderson’s contribution before forming an opinion on it.  

Getting back to stoves, my latest is that I have been doing experiments on a novel technique for adding dwell time for the flame in a TLUD-ND stove.  The technique uses stationary air foil wing shapes in the combustor (after the stationary fan that spins the flame), and directs the spinning flame slightly outward and downward.  This forms a ring of flame below the wing shapes, and only about half of the flame gets above the wings.  Soot on the cooking vessel is very light.  This technique is probably not useable in a commercial stove because the wings get red hot and so will have a short life span, but perhaps the concept will find some use at some point.  If anyone on the list is interested I will start a new thread and post some pictures.

Kirk H.

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From: Nikhil Desai
Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2019 11:08 PM
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
Cc: gkharris316 at comcast.net
Subject: Re: [Stoves] SUBSIDY for new CO2e emissions tops US$150 per ton

Kirk H.

You are supposing and pre-supposing too much.

I suggest you find a definition of subsidy in an encyclopedia or dictionary of economics before you lecture me about economics.

Nikhil Desai
+1 202 568 5831
Skype: nikhildesai888

On May 26, 2019, at 7:03 PM, Kirk H. <gkharris316 at comcast.net> wrote:
Nikhil,

Once again supporting fossil fuels on a biofuels list.  Are you working for a fossil fuel corporation?  How about helping promote biofuels so they can take over their share of the load, instead of writing biofuels off and promoting fossil fuels.  Perhaps you really should be on a fossil fuels list, promoting biofuels.  Dr. Anderson is doing what needs to be done to promote biomass stoves and biomass fuels overall.

Kirk H.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Nikhil Desai
Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2019 1:58 PM
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
Subject: Re: [Stoves] SUBSIDY for new CO2e emissions tops US$150 per ton

Paul:

IMF has second rate economists,

All this subsidy computation is as much fakery and bluffing as aDALYs.

Be thankful that fossil fuel production and use pays the taxes on which world governments run.
Nikhil Desai
+1 202 568 5831
Skype: nikhildesai888

On May 26, 2019, at 10:02 AM, Anderson, Paul <psanders at ilstu.edu> wrote:
To all,    (Please forward to your contacts)  (Can we reach the politicians and media and the public?)

The citizens of the world are PAYING the fossil fuel industries to ADD more tons of Greenhouse Gases to the atmosphere.  See the calculations below.

It is time to stop the subsidies!!!!    

Even further, the providers of NEW CO2 emissions should be PAYING a “carbon fee and dividend” as proposed by the Citizens’ Climate Lobby (CCL)     https://citizensclimatelobby.org/energy-innovation-and-carbon-dividend-act/ 

Paul S. Anderson   psanders at ilstu.edu 

 The following was prepared recently by Albert Bates to show the calculations to determine: 

How much SUBSIDY is being paid to the fossil fuel businesses per ton of CO2e emissions. 

Please distribute widely. 
First posted by: Albert Bates <albert at thefarm.org> at the biochar at yahoogroups.com  listserv 
on  May 26, 2019.

For current global subsidies, I was using the IMF numbers, which are 
also supported by Carbon Tracker and were reported in The Guardian in 
2017 
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2017/aug/07/fossil-fuel-subsidies-are-a-staggering-5-tn-per-year

The reported number was $4.9 tn in 2013 and that rose to $5.3 tn in 
2015. Taking that forward to 2019 (subsidies have accelerated, not 
slowed, but I used a constant) I got $6.9 trillion. On the webinar I 
rounded that to $7 tn.

Global emissions were 37.1 gigatonnes CO2 in 2018. 
https://www.wri.org/blog/2018/12/new-global-co2-emissions-numbers-are-they-re-not-good

Divide 6.9 e12 by 37.1 e9 and you get $185.98 per ton. I used $150 just 
to be conservative because if you use the validated 2015 number it would 
be $142.85. This is what taxpayers pay emitters to make and release CO2.

I believe that emissions are understated because I believe fugitive 
emissions are poorly accounted for. One could also make the case for 
elevated permafrost and deforestation additions being anthropogenic. So 
the calculation is still a bit squirrely, but it is in the ballpark.

Albert
The Farm POB 90 Summertown TN 38483-0090 USA
931-964-4324 (o) • 52-1998-116-5532 (mex) • 931-242-3796 (usa) •
44-782-764-6237 (uk) • 13-867-154-171 (prc)
Facebook/WhatsApp/WeChat/LinkedIn/
Global Village Institute for Appropriate Technology
Global Ecovillage Network • Gaia University
_http://gvix.org_
_http://albertbates.cool_
_http://medium.com/@albertbates_
_http://eco2.cool_
_BURN: USING FIRE TO COOL THE EARTH_
http://facebook.com/carboncascades

*************************************
Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP
Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu       Skype:   paultlud
Phone:  Office: 309-452-7072    Mobile: 309-531-4434
Website:   www.drtlud.com 
See also:   www.capitalism21.org   for insights about solutions
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