[Stoves] Charcoal and Stoves

Tue Jan 28 08:32:32 CST 2020

I have become somewhat of a stickler for always making the distinction between “fuel” and “feedstock”. I think if that distinction was observed in this case, confusion surrounding measurement of energy production would not arise.

I define “fuel” as a something that is fully consumed while being transformed into energy. There are byproducts, but they have no value.

For pyrolysis, the input is always feedstock, as it is processed into (at least) two new products - syngas and biochar. Both have value, in fact they have a wide range of uses and values. They may continue on in processes as either feedstocks or fuels. 

In a TLUD stove where the char is burned, I would still call the biomass “feedstock” that is processed into two separate fuels - syngas during stage one, and char as stage two. Each fuel has its own set of properties and will be used accordingly by an experienced cook.

Even though I have been practicing this simple distinction for years, I am still sometimes surprised by how it clarifies my thinking about processes and objectives.

Gordon West
The Trollworks
503 N. “E” Street
Silver City, NM 88061
575-537-3689

An entrepreneur sees problems as the seeds of opportunity.

> On Jan 27, 2020, at 9:34 PM, Tom Miles <trmilesjr at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I understood you to mean that the fuel was measured and the char discarded. If the stove is leaving char at the end of a cook but the char is not being accounted for than it shouldn’t matter what you do with the char. Does that make sense? I can see the misreporting problem.   
>  
> Tom
> 
> On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 6:53 PM Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <crispinpigott at outlook.com <mailto:crispinpigott at outlook.com>> wrote:
> “If the fuel conversion of the stove is based on performance without char burnout then there is no penalty…”
> 
>  
> 
> What exactly do you mean by that. I don’t want to misinterpret.
> 
>  
> 
> Do you mean if the char energy is subtracted from the fuel energy before converting it to an equivalent dry fuel mass?
> 
> Do you mean if the char energy is not subtracted from the fuel energy before converting it to an equivalent dry fuel mass?
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>  
> 
> This is the essence of the misreporting of the fuel consumption of a stove.  Is it based on the fuel needed to operate, or the energy released and back-calculated to an equivalent fuel mass. 
> 
>  
> 
> If the fuel was measured and the char discarded, then I understand you to be saying there is no fuel penalty because the char was not affecting the claimed fuel consumption.
> 
>  
> 
> Thanks
> Crispin
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> From: Stoves <stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org <mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org>> On Behalf Of Tom Miles
> Sent: Monday, January 27, 2020 18:28
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org <mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>>
> Cc: stoves at bioenergylists.org <mailto:stoves at bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Charcoal and Stoves
> 
>  
> 
> If the fuel conversion of the stove is based on performance without char burnout then there is no penalty for removing residual char for other purposes. In the Lifeline cases cited the uses appeared to be essential activities in the household. 
> 
>  
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> In the biochar case there can be more benefit from the agronomic uses - reduced cash for fertilizer, reduced labor for watering, improved yield, etc. - than for carbon sequestration. Depending on the application and the fuel it may be more practical to make the biochar in other devices but it may be suited to small garden plots.    
> 
>  
> 
> On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 3:15 PM Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <crispinpigott at outlook.com <mailto:crispinpigott at outlook.com>> wrote:
> 
> Thank you Tom.
> 
>  
> 
> For CDM projects, there is no consideration given for the removal of char in the fuel efficiency calculations, which underlies the determine of generation of CER’s.  There easily cold be, but there is not.
> 
>  
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> Only a reduction of fuel consumption is considered, and that is field-assessed.  If one were to argue that the char was being sequestered in an inaccessible and permanent manner, one could propose a new rule for the calculation of GHG’s considering retained char.
> 
>  
> 
> The only thing they record for stove projects is fuel mass harvested for cooking.  Obviously there is an implication that the carbon is (largely) released as CO2.
> 
>  
> 
> Regards
> 
> Crispin
> 
>  
> 
> From: Stoves <stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org <mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org>> On Behalf Of Tom Miles
> Sent: Monday, January 27, 2020 17:54
> To: stoves at bioenergylists.org <mailto:stoves at bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: [Stoves] Charcoal and Stoves
> 
>  
> 
> It was an eventful gathering at the ETHOS meeting in Kirkland, Washington, USA, this weekend. Many thanks to Elisa Derby, Nordica MaCarty, the ETHOS board and volunteers for our 20th year celebration. 
> 
>  
> 
> It was apparent to me from the advanced modelling, lab performance data, field tests and field experiences which were reported that charcoal is an important component of household energy and food security. Within the stove charcoal combustion contributes high peak temperatures which can improve performance and reduce emissions. This is demonstrated in the addition of the "Jet-Flame" to a Rocket Stove, which I view as a charcoal burner. By introducing a little pressurized air at the grate you can "low on the coals". The addition of uniformly distributed undergrate air, with even a little pressure, is enough to improve char combustion and shorten the flame, which should indicate increased carbon monoxide burnout. Aprovecho showcased the Jet-Flame at ETHOS. Their testing showed nearly complete charcoal burnout.  
> 
> https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/201911/08/WS5dc507d8a310cf3e355763b2_2.html <https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.chinadaily.com.cn%2Fa%2F201911%2F08%2FWS5dc507d8a310cf3e355763b2_2.html&data=02%7C01%7C%7Ccd21f956db6b433cf66808d7a380d902%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637157646101206239&sdata=q1Nw0pobUoVg6fVfO%2FUWhLJL3YR5rYyH1LJrgBEo2Mc%3D&reserved=0>
>  
> 
> Others from Lifeline said there were circumstances where the charcoal is very important for other uses in the household and that burning out charcoal would not be desired. Someone with a better memory can remind me of what those uses were, 
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> Biochar advocates want to make charcoal for use in the soil while cooking, which is usually accomplished by removing charcoal faster than you are consume it. 
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> In cases where we want to leave residual charcoal or remove it to make biochar we need to balance the performance benefits of burning the charcoal with the household needs or food security  - biochar - benefits. We have new tools but we need to find out how best to use them. 
> 
>  
> 
> Tom
> 
>  
> 
> --
> 
> T R Miles Technical Consultants, Inc
> Portland, OR 97225
> 
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> T R Miles Technical Consultants, Inc
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> T R Miles Technical Consultants, Inc
> 1470 SW Woodward Way
> Portland, OR 97225
> tmiles at trmiles.com <mailto:tmiles at trmiles.com>
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