[Stoves] ***SPAM*** Patung-Patong Brick Stove , continued - part 3- Fuel Savings

[Ronal Larson]

Hi all

> This is a third response to a message from Jed Guinto on 13 March.   
> 		I responded last night to his response re his first set of questions on a aew stove of his own design.  That had a similar thread name - saying at end:  Part 1 -  stoves.
	
Correction-	I meant to send.#2 last night - but somehow went the wrong way - just sent #2 on the 17th,  not the intended 16th

> 	I hope others will join in.on both.

>               now three



> Begin forwarded message:
> 
> From: Ronal Larson <rongretlarson at comcast.net>
> Subject: Patung-Patong Brick Stove , continued - part 2- charcoal making
> Date: March 17, 2021 at 9:40:58 PM MDT
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Cc: Joshua Guinto <jed.building.bridges at gmail.com>
> 
> List, cc Jed

			<snip>

> 
>>> From: Joshua Guinto <jed.building.bridges at gmail.com <mailto:jed.building.bridges at gmail.com>>
>>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Seeking Advice: Technical Evaluation of the Patung-Patong Brick Stove
>>> Date: March 13, 2021 at 7:47:58 PM MST
>>> To: Ronal Larson <rongretlarson at comcast.net <mailto:rongretlarson at comcast.net>>
>>> 
>>> Dear Ron and everyone
>>> 
>>> My reply is in between your lines.
> 
> 			,<,snip my response on 15th.>.(<and today for #2>


			Jed’s original said near the end;

> the third is about the cost effectiveness of this stove for a household in terms of fuel savings. 
> 
> 
> [RWL 6    a.  You seem to have an efficient stove with fuel savings given that you are getting 25% char by weight.  Many TlUDS are getting less.
> 
> With a fuel cost of Php 6 for pili shells, this will easily compete with gas or charcoal. i think the bottle neck is the upfront cost for the poor household to buy the stove. 
> 
> My business model is to install resellers of the stove and shells in many parts of the province, and then make a buy back scheme for pili biochar. 
> 
> I still need more funds to create the necessary infrastructure.... more resellers,  technicians, more delivery wagons. 

			RWL6’a:    What sort of funding level is needed?

				I said earlier that you might be able to receive payment for a stove in X months of bags or kg of char - instead of cash.    Reasonable in the Philippines?


			b.  A simple water boiling test will give you the energy parameter numbers most stove sponsors are most interested in.  Glad to help with that “ISO” computation.

I now drowned with so many protocols and debates about the water boiling tests. Which one should i use? 

			RWL6’b;    This answered in #2 (also sent tonight).  My main point is that the most important variable is energy in the tier rating - and people willl respect that number if well documented. - independents of any specific ISO document.



c.  I don’t know enough about low cost ways to measure. CO and particulates with the needed accuracy - but I recall that you know Dean Still and Apro.  Maybe others reading this can tell what the nearest testing lab is - and the costs.  Your device at 18 kg weight is able to be shipped and tested somewhere - but you’ll need funds that your today’s note might turn up.

Yes Dean Still and Aprovecho.... i hope that will be possible. My smallest stove is 13 kg and transportable. The pili shells is also transportable. H

Hello Dean.... 

			RWL6’c:¨.        Apro is a possibility,  but I hope readers will identify others nearby.  Adding Dean as a cc.

 
d.   I believe the Ag soil benefits (over centuries) far exceeds its fuel savings benefits.

> Attached is a poster about the stove.

	[RWL7:   Attractive!  
	a.  This says ‘medium” model.  Can you also give the similar small and large stove model dimensions - and who is buying what.  I remember your video of a restaurant with a large oil-vat.   Can you now duplicate that in this new design?  Or the large?


			The following is material at the end of Jed’s last message - somewhat related to the above

Attached is a rare photo of the three sizes together ... the large, medium and small. 

			RWL7a.   Thanks for all the added information.   Feel free to add more about any of your products or the photo..


	b.   This poster and stove is totally independent of CNSC?  See above comment on pentagons - which might or might not be something you want to do.

yes it is totally independent of the CNSC. These are my works before i got into the university. 

			RWL7’’b:  Let us know when/where we should be separating our discussions.    It seems tthe two areas of your life are working well together.


> You may also see a short video clip on how to use it at 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6IdvO_HuJE <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6IdvO_HuJE> 

	[RWL8:   This a very good video. 
		 I hope you can insert some more English translations - as in the end.  English will help with raising funds.  Also might be helpful to add your name and new academic position in here somewhere on the poster.

Ok will ask my son to help me with this. 

			RWL8’a;   Your website is very good.  Your son is doing a good job.


		I guess there may be some advantage in the Philippines to seeing the label “rocket stove” - because it can operate as one - ss can any  TLUD.   But the reverse is never true - no rocket can make char - the most valuable co-product that can be so important in the Philippines.
	if it were me, I’d replace “rocket" with ‘advanced char-making”.

Great idea. 

			RWL8’;b    Anyone else want to weigh in on  best modifiers for for his TLUDS?


		or maybe “combined char-making and rocket”.    I leave out “TLUD” because that won’t sell any stoves.
	And especially appropriate for your designing a stove to make a product with mainly ag benefits - easily able to cover any extra stove costs.
	
            Hoping for any leads.

			RWL8’c;   The TLUD community should be looking to you for leads.


> Thanks in advance. 

	[RWL9:   may not be any leads above - but it's great to hear from you and to add a few thoughtson what you have been up to.   

		Thank you for sharing.  You do excellent work.  CNSC is lucky to have you.

Much flattered here. 

Finally let me invite you to our new facebook page, the Bahay Teknik. There is much happening there now. It is my business and advocacy platform.

You will see how busy it is now with our recent breakthroughs. 

 My son Sandino runs the business and this page now. He will be very delighted if you could drop  a message there. 

			RWL9';    The Bahay Teknik site was quite surprising.  A lot more there than stoves.  Your prices seem very low by US standards.   
				I see you do mail orders.  Anything to say about that?
				I’m glad to see you use the word “breakthroughs”.

				Too late in Colorado to “drop a message” - but I will.

			Any comments from others?


> 		Next -  part 4 (everything early - except Jed’s 3 questions ) —  (everything else deserving more discussion,)
> 
> Ron

> 			<snip.>

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