[Stoves] ***SPAM*** RE: ***SPAM*** Re: [Biochar] LPG and Advanced combustion biomass stoves FW: ***PRESENTATION ATTACHED*** THE WEEK OF CLEAN COOKING SERIES OF WEBINARS: Joint ESMAP-Clean Cooking Alliance: The Role of Liquefied Petroleum Gas (LPG) As a Household Fue
Crispin Pemberton-Pigott
crispinpigott at outlook.com
Tue Oct 19 16:54:11 CDT 2021
Dear Kevin
I think you cannot demonstrate anyone's health is "improved" by converting to LPG. Several attempts have been made at doing that and the results are inconclusive. The "benefit" is theoretical and based on "estimates" and "attributions", not medical evidence.
Thus there is no gain in planning to eliminate stacking - because people are always stacking their cooking appliances. Exposure to pollutants takes place within a context that includes the neighbourhood.
There has been clear medical evidence of improved stoves improving health where the ambient air is very clean (as in a rural area) and pollution I caused by leaking chimney stoves in an enclosed space. This particularly refers to heating stoves that are used for cooking as well. The paper looking into this consists of three investigations, one of which was as described, the other two were not.
The reference is here<https://www.nature.com/articles/s41533-019-0144-8.epdf> (open source).
It is of concern to me that the claims made casually about indoor air pollution in many articles are only loosely connected physical reality, and so willingly accepted without question.
The claim that stacking ruins all health "benefits of LPG", or that claimed benefits cannot possibly be determined if stacking is involved is based on nothing at all. Literally. Kirk Smith made it up, and he is gone.
Emissions from stacking is a quantifiable problem on a community-wide basis, if you are prepared to accept modelling rooted in ground-based measurements. What such measurements will probably show is that the personal exposures anticipated from any stove are over-estimated and not very related to "rated emissions" from any sort of lab or field test.
What we can say with confidence is that people like cooking with gas, and pellets, and if they could afford to, they would. A major reason they like it is the pots are clean when the meal is ready. This is a major factor when looking at charcoal burning stoves, and well made TLUD gasifiers.
Something that ought to be on the agenda is ventilation - that is, hoods and chimneys - instead of expensive solutions. Kirk Smith objected to hoods because it "puts the pollution outside" and it might come in again. If it does, it will be in highly diluted form. He also objected to chimney stoves as a solution because, according to what he published, there are no improved-combustion chimney stoves. That assumption is embedded in the WHO modeling used to create the ISO voluntary performance Tiers. You can see what a mess we are in.
We should therefore concentrate on burning things well, and venting the emissions outside. Then there will be a huge improvement in all air quality in the community.
Keep up the good work.
Best regards
Crispin
From: Stoves <stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org> On Behalf Of K McLean
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2021 6:30
To: main at Biochar.groups.io
Cc: Stoves and Biofuels Network <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: [Stoves] ***SPAM*** Re: [Biochar] LPG and Advanced combustion biomass stoves FW: ***PRESENTATION ATTACHED*** THE WEEK OF CLEAN COOKING SERIES OF WEBINARS: Joint ESMAP-Clean Cooking Alliance: The Role of Liquefied Petroleum Gas (LPG) As a Household Fuel...
Paul,
The benefit of cooking solely with lpg is better health. But when stacked with "unclean" cooking, the lpg health benefit is largely erased. And as the ESMAP document says, stacking is widespread. They acknowledged the stacking problem at the webinar, didn't they?
More directly, the adoption of lpg by families now cooking with biomass will not significantly improve the health of most of those families due to stacking.
Kevin
On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 1:14 AM Paul S Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu<mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu>> wrote:
This is a link: Comparison of Bottled Gas and Advanced Combustion Pellet Stoves<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdocuments1.worldbank.org%2Fcurated%2Fen%2F440901626157056956%2Fpdf%2FComparison-of-Bottled-Gas-and-Advanced-Combustion-Pellet-Stoves.pdf&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cf7978f321fb84ff48aae08d9930840e0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637702485957557284%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=p0u0HfgI814ZWEq2PtI%2F4kfwRD6ghYo0TrbLtZ07gSw%3D&reserved=0>
To cookstove enthusiasts.
Above is an attachment and also a link of interest to all Stovers and also those biochar folks interested in cookstoves that make biochar.
Notes: The attachment(and message below) is from TODAY's webinar session on LPG. Very important about the direction of world stove efforts.
A. The Clean Cooking Alliance (CCA) is now focused on "Advanced cooking solutions" as has been defined by ESMAP (of the World Bank) back in Tech Report 007/15 back in 2015. http://www.drtlud.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Stove-Classification-2017-04-10.pdf<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.drtlud.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F04%2FStove-Classification-2017-04-10.pdf&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cf7978f321fb84ff48aae08d9930840e0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637702485957567275%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=fWbggaUdXe09%2BLRQYI34M4CP3PmofOkMY4xYU5AHajM%3D&reserved=0>
This is exclusively Electricity, LPG, Natural Gas, Biogas, Alcohol, Solar (what are referred to as "clean cooking fuels") plus ONLY ONE TYPE OF STOVE THAT USES SOLID BIOMASS FUEL. That biomass stove type is for the micro-gasifiers, commonly called TLUD stoves.
B. Charcoal and kerosene and other "improved cookstoves (ICS)" are really out of the picture except as something to be replaced.
C. Even in the world concerned about climate change and CO2 emissions from fossil fuels, LdPG is presented as having net lower emissions than the traditional and ICS stoves. (Actually true because of black carbon and incomplete combustion). And even LPG is considered to be something of a stepping stone to using electricity eventually for all the world's cooking beyond 2050, (or some bio-sourced LPG, that I do not pretend to understand).
C. And that leads to the linked document that compares LPG with the ONE type of biomass stoves that is in the "Advanced Combustion" category, the micro-gasifiers. And the article focuses on pellet stoves and therefore with fans. Totally ignores the natural draft TLUD stoves.
D. There is no mention that the TLUD micro-gasifiers are actually Carbon NEGATIVE. Because they make biochar, they are the ONLY cookstoves of any type that accomplish long term carbon dioxide REMOVAL, transforming via pyrolysis 50% of the carbon atoms in biomass by photosynthesis. For climate improvement, the world should WANT the people who are already cooking with solid dry biomass to continue to cook with biomass fuel, but with a stove that is not only clean (meeting the ESMAP requirements as advanced cooking) but also accomplishing carbon sequestration by making biochar AND earning income for these impoverished people (while using only about half of the same biomass that they use now with traditional cookstoves. Cumulatively, the current 500 million households that cook on solid fuels could sequester over 200 million tonnes of CO2e per year, bringing income via carbon credit sales to the world's poorest 40% of population. But those facts are NOT mentioned in either document.
E. Note that these works are by ESMAP, a highly respected entity. But the talking points of the LPG lobby are found in the documents. I thank ESMAP for the 2015 publication and for not forgetting about pyrolytic cookstoves in these 2021 documents, but they are overlooking important aspects of TLUD stove technology. We have a climate to save and need all the possible help. The money that the fossil fuel companies (and the governments that they influence) will put into LPG for the poor (so that the LPG business can make a profit) could accomplish so much more if directed to making available to the poor the acknowledged ADVANCED cookstoves that use biomass and make biochar, the TLUD stoves. I have published about this previously and can provide details for action. TLUD stoves for the poor and for the climate are an opportunity waiting to be recognized.
F. And apparently the CCA has bought into this LPG advocacy hook, line and sinker. I hope that someone will forward this message to the leadership of the CCA and anyone interested in cookstoves and climate and biomass and biochar. Biochar producing TLUD micro-gasifier stoves have been ignored repeatedly by the CCA and the GACC and the PCIA, going back many many years. A little support once in a while would be appreciated, or even a chance to present such info at a CCA forum.
(When responding via the discussion groups, please ALSO send to my personal email address ( psanders at ilstu.edu<mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu> ) because I am not able to receive the messages sent via the Stoves Listserv., but I do receive the messages sent to the biochar discussion group.)
Paul
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with pages 88 - 94 about solving the world crisis for clean cookstoves.
From: ESMAP <esmap at worldbank.org<mailto:esmap at worldbank.org>>
Sent: Monday, October 18, 2021 10:05 AM
Subject: ***PRESENTATION ATTACHED*** THE WEEK OF CLEAN COOKING SERIES OF WEBINARS: Joint ESMAP-Clean Cooking Alliance: The Role of Liquefied Petroleum Gas (LPG) As a Household Fuel | October 18, 2021
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