[Digestion] Cross Language Linking (was RE: Biogas Groups)

Tue Nov 30 17:14:43 CST 2010

G'day All,

I think we need a new thread so I can easily see anyone who responds to my
original post, which has certainly set off some discussion here.

There is a translation of "The Beginners Guide to Biogas" on the biogas wiki
that I had a multilingual person look at and he thought the quality was good
(except for one more technical area that I can't remember just now).

I guess one approach is for individuals to use website translators to look
at the archives to get an idea of what is going on, so that it then becomes
their task/responsibility to chase up bits that don't translate (hopefully
interesting bits, and possibly translation problems, would be transferred
across). This raises the question about differences between translation
tools? I, like David, am monolingual so my test would be to start with
something in English, translate to Spanish (or whatever) then translate back
again to see how it compared to the original using the various translation
options (I guess I can try it on "The Beginners Guide" above!).

Happy digesting,

HOOROO

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From: digestion-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org
[mailto:digestion-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of David
Sent: Wednesday, 1 December 2010 9:25 AM
To: For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion
Subject: Re: [Digestion] Biogas Groups

There is as well, the point on which both of you agree, which is that
automated translation is inadequate to the task. Artificial intelligence is
actually very little like the real thing.

But consider: translation done by a human would be prohibitively expensive,
and thus without the poor shadow that could be provided by automated
translation, these lists we are discussing (thanks to the spark provided by
Paul) would remain islands, largely isolated excepting to the few (I speak
as someone born in the US) who speak more than one language with sufficient
fluency that they can partake in the original ("foreign") language.

Whereas, if automation is used, at least some portion of the discussion can
be transmitted more widely. This would, I think, be novel and of wider
interest-- perhaps even somewhat pioneering, or visionary, a glimpse into a
future unified world. Further, if, for example, those joining the discussion
in Spanish knew their words were being translated and seen by a wider
audience, it might encourage not only more, but more earnest and thoughtful
participation. (Based on what you say, the Germans need no such catalyst!)
There could as well be other advantages.

Some of the issues you mention above could be addressed (although perhaps
awkwardly) if the translation were two-way. 

As far as agreement from the participants to have their words translated,
that could be resolved when they signed up by asking them not to agree, but
to disagree, to actively say they did not want to be translated. If an
existing list were "converted" to translation, the issue could be handled
similarly: open the discussion, and if it were a comfortable thought for
"enough" of the participants, allow opting out, rather than seeking active
agreement. 

The core difficulty would be the expense of setting something up a list or
software system which could accommodate the implied options: tracking and
not translating those who had opted out, handling individual-to-individual
translated responses, and of course selecting and integrating an automated--
free!-- translation service (Babelfish/Yahoo? Translate.Google?). No doubt
my list of problems is anemic, but the point remains that there would be
challenges.

Alex indicates that some funds are available, but they may be inadequate to
the task, excepting if further sponsorship could be found. Could one gain
interest from one of the services that do automated translation? It might be
newsworthy and therefore of some value to them for the PR...

Mind you, I have no idea whether the litany of problems might be addressed
and overcome, but I thought an alternative look at the issue might be of
interest.

d.

-- 

David William House

"The Complete Biogas Handbook" www.completebiogas.com
Vahid Biogas, an alternative energy consultancy www.vahidbiogas.com

"Make no search for water.       But find thirst,
And water from the very ground will burst." 

(Rumi, a Persian mystic poet, quoted in Delight of Hearts, p. 77) 

http://bahai.us/

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