[Stoves] indoor and Smoky stoves have other important advantages.

Thu Apr 7 13:02:49 CDT 2011

Hello all, smoky stoves and their advantages are somethingwe must all consider when we are working on cleaner cookstoves. But first ahardy compliment to both Marc Pare and Katherine P. Ransel for their thoughtfuland culturally sensitive approaches. 

Marc in particular sets the tone that we should all usealways of, just because it is better does not mean it is culturally acceptable. Manyyears ago I remember we tried to promote the use of dung in a certain villageas a fuel but it was so taboo, that even though it was the only locally availablefuel people preferred to purchase more expensive options. 

As for smoky stoves, unless we are also providing enoughenergy to run a small fridge remember that without the smoke not only the roofssuffer but also the food. In many of the countries where we are working theonly (or most common means) of food preservation (both meat and vegetable) issmoke. No smoke mean no way to keep food.

I agree that cooking out doors is a great way to reduce harmfrom emissions but we must keep in mind all the functions of a stove. Heat,food preservation and light are some of the big one beyond cooking; all threeof these require the stove to be indoors.

Just my two cents… well, maybe a nickel (it was a ratherlong response) 

Cheers

Nat of WorldStove

-----Original Message-----
From: stoves-request at lists.bioenergylists.org
To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
Sent: Thu, Apr 7, 2011 8:53 am
Subject: Stoves Digest, Vol 8, Issue 8

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Message: 5
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2011 13:20:58 +0700
From: Marc Pare <mpare at gatech.edu>
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
    <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Improved Stoves without chimneys being used
    indoors or  not?
Message-ID: <BANLkTikP9qkGOHg8dekCNj_v1pijbGoPQg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I'm not sure what the context for this question is, but the
social/anthropological side seems to be missing from the response. Here are
some data points about why people cook indoors despite it being "obviously"
harmful:

* My little sister returned from Cameroon with the observation that
three-stone fires have very strong cultural ties. To divorce a woman you
throw one of the stones from inside the house outside. Not sure what it
would mean to convince these families to move their cooking outside...

* Similarly, she mentioned that most people don't think smoke from fires is
what causes their coughs or irritated eyes.

* Some people need smoky fires to keep bugs from growing in their thatched
roofs. Imagine trying to convince someone that they should risk having giant
millipedes fall from the roof on them while sleeping for some long-term
health benefit.

I'm sure there a thousand other little stories like this from people on this
list.

Marc Par?
B.S. Mechanical Engineering
Georgia Institute of Technology | Universit? de Technologie de Compi?gne

my cv, etc. | http://notwandering.com

Message: 6
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 23:53:15 -0700
From: "Katherine Ransel" <kransel at gmail.com>
To: "'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'"
    <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Improved Stoves without chimneys being used
    indoors ornot?
Message-ID: <DFFD64A9C0F340D3BB0E31571A382335 at jazzloverPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Actually, I think there might be something much more important than
millipedes.  Chagas is a very serious, and potentially deadly disease
propagated by an insect (the kissing bug) that lives in thatched roofs or
adobe homes.  It had never occurred to me until I read this that the reason
people came to cook inside in tropical climates might have something to do
with the kissing bug. When I lived in Nicaragua (2007 to 2008), Chagas was
alive and well there.

So . . . .eliminate thatched roorw, although it also lives and thrives in
adobe or other kinds of buildings in tropical climates if they are not well
maintained, in the open cracks.  So, if people cook inside consciously or
unconsciously because of the threat of chagas, eliminate chagas and perhaps
they will move their stoves outside!

Katherine P. Ransel

kransel at gmail.com

Seattle, WA 

(206)783-4875

?I have just three things to teach: 

simplicity, patience, compassion. 

These three are your greatest treasures.? 

Lao Tzu

  _____  

From: stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org
[mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of Marc Pare
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 11:21 PM
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Improved Stoves without chimneys being used indoors
ornot?

I'm not sure what the context for this question is, but the
social/anthropological side seems to be missing from the response. Here are
some data points about why people cook indoors despite it being "obviously"
harmful:

* My little sister returned from Cameroon with the observation that
three-stone fires have very strong cultural ties. To divorce a woman you
throw one of the stones from inside the house outside. Not sure what it
would mean to convince these families to move their cooking outside...

* Similarly, she mentioned that most people don't think smoke from fires is
what causes their coughs or irritated eyes.  

* Some people need smoky fires to keep bugs from growing in their thatched
roofs. Imagine trying to convince someone that they should risk having giant
millipedes fall from the roof on them while sleeping for some long-term
health benefit.

I'm sure there a thousand other little stories like this from people on this
list. 

Marc Par?
B.S. Mechanical Engineering
Georgia Institute of Technology | Universit? de Technologie de Compi?gne

my cv, etc. | http://notwandering.com

On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 2:52 AM, Paul S. Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu> wrote:

Stovers,

I received a question and I share my response so that others can comment.

Since Africa has a far
higher incidence of death from indoor air pollution than any other
continent.  Do you understand the reason for that to be that more people
cook inside their homes than in other continents?

In America we cook inside our houses.  But we have clean stoves.

A greater percentage of people in Africa are using poor, smokey
stoves/3-stone fires without ventilation of the cooking area.

If not, do you know what
the reason is?  Are you aware of any projects where people who have
traditionally cooked inside their homes have been persuaded over the long
term to cook outside in order to use a clean burning cookstove?

I do not know of efforts to convince people who cook indoors with bad stoves
to move their stoves outside.  Comments, anyone?   But see next comment.

I see
pictures on the websites of various of stove makers of stoves being used
both indoors and out.  Is there a protocol for indoor versus outdoor use
among stovemakers?

The vast majority of stove makers do NOT recommend that their stoves be used
inside unless there is a chimney.  Potential liability issues, probably.

But my question is:  when people who have terrible smokey homes get an
improved cookstove ICS that is much cleaner, but not super clean and no
chimney, do they simply use it indoors?   Or do the new stove and stove
providers alter the cooking habits so much that the households take the ICS
outside or into a better ventilated room?

Paul
-- 
Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Known to some as:  Dr. TLUD    Doc    Professor
Phone (USA): 309-452-7072   SKYPE: paultlud   Email: psanders at ilstu.edu
www.gtz.de/de/dokumente/giz2011-en-micro-gasification.pdf   (Best ref.)

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