[Stoves] Stoves Digest, Vol 14, Issue 40
Art Donnelly
art.donnelly at seachar.org
Mon Oct 24 23:38:25 CDT 2011
RE: Hi TLUDers
Dean and all,
This is an exciting year for TLUDs. I want to add some more good news to the
list. SeaChar's Estufa Finca project has received a $72,000 grant from the
National Geographic's "Great Energy Challenge" program, for TLUD and biochar
research. Through our partners the Mujeres de APORTES we have also received
a $10,000 contract from the IOM
http://www.iom.int/jahia/Jahia/activities/pid/453 for implementing a 100
stove follow-on program to our recent pilot project, working with migrant
coffee pickers.
This year we will also have the opportunity to begin work with a large
indigenous owned cocao co-op. This will give us a great opportunity to test
different TLUDs side by side in the field over a long period of time. We
plan to be doing KPT , CCT and emissions exposure tests.
We would love your input.
Dean when are you thinking of having a TLUD" meet-up"? I am leaving for CR
on Nov.1st, but I think I might have a trained operator who could come down.
Art Donnelly-SeaChar
On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 9:41 PM, <stoves-request at lists.bioenergylists.org>wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Zambia TLUD project and other large TLUD projects
> (Richard Stanley)
> 2. Re: Hi TLUDers -- and EPA testing questions
> (rongretlarson at comcast.net)
> 3. Re: Hi TLUDers -- and EPA testing questions (Dean Still)
> 4. Re: Hi TLUDers -- and EPA testing questions
> (rongretlarson at comcast.net)
> 5. Re: Hi TLUDers -- and EPA testing questions (Dean Still)
> 6. Re: Hi TLUDers -- and EPA testing questions
> (rongretlarson at comcast.net)
> 7. Gasifier stove and related work at the Asian institute of
> Technology (Prof. S.C. Bhattacharya)
> 8. Re Hi TLUDerss (Paal wendelbo)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 10:52:07 -0700
> From: Richard Stanley <rstanley at legacyfound.org>
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Zambia TLUD project and other large TLUD
> projects
> Message-ID: <E5A4B90F-70CF-4831-904D-1B104AAFE57F at legacyfound.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> Paal,
>
> Congratulations on the Zambia contract?
>
> Assisting is great for the start but then how do you plan for the
> assistance to be sustained ? The Peko Pe is brilliant design especially
> because it easy to replicate and adapt to local markets, so how is that part
> worked out?Just curious because we are just completing a marketing manual
> with some producers and trainer teams in Tanzania.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Richard Stanley
> www.legacyfound.org
> =======
>
> On Oct 23, 2011, at 6:33 AM, Paul S. Anderson wrote:
>
> > Dear Paal and all,
> >
> > CONGRATULAIONS on the Zambia project!!!!!!!!! Please send to all of us
> the basic details when you are able, plus updates as you progress.
> >
> > Please clarify about: "assisting 175,000 farmers ... how to utilize the
> waste from biochar production for household energy." There are several
> possible interpretations of those words: 175 k persons, or households,
> or stoves? and what is the role of the charcoal: to be biochar into soil,
> or to become charcoal as fuel for households (urban?).
> >
> > With Paal's many years of experience in Africa, and with Otto Formo's
> participation also (my assumption, but highly likely), this will be a great
> TLUD project.
> >
> > For the records (and please correct me if I am in error), the largest
> TLUD projects thus far in the world have been:
> >
> > 1. Oorja Stove, by BP(now First Energy) in India: 400,000 stoves (with
> fans) We are not hearing anything more about that. If someone has info,
> please send it to the Stoves Listserv (or to me or others who will make a
> posting for all).
> >
> > -------(Wendelbo's Zambia project will enter the list here)
> >
> > 2. (lacking confirmation) Daxu Stove in China: 25,000 stoves ???
> (update info requested; I think the project stopped.)
> >
> > 3. BEIA project by CREEC in Uganda, with 10,000 Mwoto TLUD-ND stoves
> (project initiated in 2011 and runs to late 2012) ( Mwoto has its
> application submitted to the EPA for this coming third round of testing.)
> >
> > Paul
> > --
> > Paul S. Anderson, PhD
> > Known to some as: Dr. TLUD Doc Professor
> > Phone (USA): 309-452-7072 SKYPE: paultlud Email: psanders at ilstu.edu
> > www.gtz.de/de/dokumente/giz2011-en-micro-gasification.pdf (Best ref.)
> >
> >
> > Quoting Paal wendelbo <paaw at online.no>:
> >
> >> TLUDers
> >>
> >> The Peko Pe is already tested by Aprovecho in 2009 and a application is
> send to PCIA for testing by Jim Jetter EPA. Another good TLUD-ND news:
> Miombo has this days signed a contract on a pilot project assisting 175000
> farmers in Zambia how to utilize the waste from biochar production for
> household energy! using the Peko Pe for cooking.
> >>
> >> Regards Paal W paaw at online.no
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > This message was sent using Illinois State University RedbirdMail
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Stoves mailing list
> >
> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> > stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> >
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> >
> > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
> > http://www.bioenergylists.org/
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 20:03:53 +0000 (UTC)
> From: rongretlarson at comcast.net
> To: deankstill at gmail.com, Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Hi TLUDers -- and EPA testing questions
> Message-ID:
> <
> 362149272.1053476.1319400233826.JavaMail.root at sz0133a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net
> >
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Dean (cc list and Paul)
>
> Thanks for the PCIA link - which I found most interesting.
>
> I do not know anything about the Stove-Tec TLUD - which came across as
> being very successful.
>
> Can you either describe some details of your design - or send us to an
> existing web description? What might you have done differently than other
> TLUDS?
>
> Is there a reason that data for it were not in all the PCIA report graphs?
>
> Ron
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dean Still" <deankstill at gmail.com>
> To: "Paul S. Anderson" <psanders at ilstu.edu>
> Cc: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2011 6:28:32 PM
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Hi TLUDers -- and EPA testing questions
>
> http://www.pciaonline.org/files/PCIA_LabTestResults_webinar_final.pdf
>
>
> Hi Paul,
>
>
> Here's what PCIA published on the first round of testing. I see that a lot
> of your questions are answered there.
>
>
> My idea was that if TLUDers find it useful they can for free use our
> emission equipment.
>
>
> All Best,
>
>
> Dean
>
> On Sat, Oct 22, 2011 at 5:00 PM, Paul S. Anderson < psanders at ilstu.edu >
> wrote:
>
>
> Dear Dean and all,
>
> I know of at least 5 TLUDs, each from a separate PCIA Partner, that have
> been proposed for testing by Jim Jetter for this third round.
>
> The Aprovecho offer of a free tune up under the emissions hood is nice. Is
> that offer matched by Zamorano in Honduras or CREEC in Uganda or any other
> place with PEMS equipment?
>
> Question: Does a person need to go to Oregon, or could the stove be sent
> with instructions? Cottage Grove is only convenient and inexpensive for
> those who live within a hundred miles!!
>
> And does Aprovecho have the SAME fuels as what Jim will be using? By the
> way, what are the acceptable fuels now at the EPA testing?
>
> Another question is how is the WBT used by the EPA different from which
> version of the other WBT's? I would like a short summary, not just a
> reference to multi-page documents where the methods are written but the
> differences are not pointed out.
>
> BTW, what TLUDs have been tested previously???
>
> ??? With fans: Oorja (yes) and Reed Campstove (??) and BioLyte (??) and
> Belonio (??) others?
>
> ??? And natural draft: Peko Pe (?) and experimental unit from StoveTec
> (yes) and what else?
>
> Paul
> --
> Paul S. Anderson, PhD
> Known to some as: Dr. TLUD Doc Professor
> Phone (USA): 309-452-7072 SKYPE: paultlud Email: psanders at ilstu.edu
> www.gtz.de/de/dokumente/ giz2011-en-micro-gasification. pdf (Best ref.)
>
>
> Quoting Dean Still < deankstill at gmail.com >:
>
>
> <blockquote>
> Hi Stovers!
>
> Sorry to have been out of touch. My email was messed up in a subtle way.
>
> Jim Jetter (EPA/PCIA) is doing a second round of stove testing. He is
> finding out fantastic things about emissions, testing, etc. We are very
> lucky to have such a great guy and activity going on.
>
> Natural draft TLUDs were shown in the first round to successfully compete
> with fan stoves for low fuel use and emissions. Congratulations to Tom
> Reed,
> Paal Wendelbo, Paul Anderson, Ron Larson, Christa Roth, etc who invented
> and
> developed the TLUD!
>
> To those who are going to submit a TLUD to Jim, please feel free, if you'd
> like, to come to our lab for a free tune up using the emissions hood.
>
> Strong hot coffee, Fall in Oregon, super low emissions. What could be
> better?
>
> All Best,
>
> Dean
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------ ------------------------------ ----
> This message was sent using Illinois State University RedbirdMail
>
>
>
> </blockquote>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>
> -------------- next part --------------
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 14:16:18 -0700
> From: Dean Still <deankstill at gmail.com>
> To: rongretlarson at comcast.net
> Cc: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Hi TLUDers -- and EPA testing questions
> Message-ID:
> <CA+tShZtukTEktFOKQejur0X_ybo6o8WYDAgJPJUkSMiF5yRPJQ at mail.gmail.com
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi Ron,
>
> Paul, Christa, Paal, Art and others taught at several TLUD oriented Stove
> Camps how to make TLUDs. All we did was to change different amounts of air,
> mixing, heat transfer strategies to the prototype design under the
> emissions
> hood. The emission hood lets us tune a stove the way cars are tuned.
>
> The TLUD we sent to Jim has a lot of fast air and mixing at the top of the
> fuel bed. We have the fuel sitting on a screen letting in as much bottom
> air
> as possible so the charcoal catches on fire and helps to cook the food or
> simmer the water. The stove burns up all the fuel. We pay a lot of
> attention
> to making the heat transfer to the pot as good as possible.
>
> I think it's really neat that a stove can either make bio-char or not by
> controlling the bottom air so consumers can pick what they want the stove
> to
> do.
>
> Great to hear from you.
>
> Dean
>
> On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 1:03 PM, <rongretlarson at comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > Dean (cc list and Paul)
> >
> > Thanks for the PCIA link - which I found most interesting.
> >
> > I do not know anything about the Stove-Tec TLUD - which came across
> as
> > being very successful.
> >
> > Can you either describe some details of your design - or send us to
> an
> > existing web description? What might you have done differently than
> other
> > TLUDS?
> >
> > Is there a reason that data for it were not in all the PCIA report
> > graphs?
> >
> > Ron
> >
> > ------------------------------
> > *From: *"Dean Still" <deankstill at gmail.com>
> > *To: *"Paul S. Anderson" <psanders at ilstu.edu>
> > *Cc: *"Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <
> > stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> > *Sent: *Saturday, October 22, 2011 6:28:32 PM
> > *Subject: *Re: [Stoves] Hi TLUDers -- and EPA testing questions
> >
> >
> > http://www.pciaonline.org/files/PCIA_LabTestResults_webinar_final.pdf
> >
> > Hi Paul,
> >
> > Here's what PCIA published on the first round of testing. I see that a
> lot
> > of your questions are answered there.
> >
> > My idea was that if TLUDers find it useful they can for free use our
> > emission equipment.
> >
> > All Best,
> >
> > Dean
> >
> > On Sat, Oct 22, 2011 at 5:00 PM, Paul S. Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu
> >wrote:
> >
> >> Dear Dean and all,
> >>
> >> I know of at least 5 TLUDs, each from a separate PCIA Partner, that have
> >> been proposed for testing by Jim Jetter for this third round.
> >>
> >> The Aprovecho offer of a free tune up under the emissions hood is nice.
> >> Is that offer matched by Zamorano in Honduras or CREEC in Uganda or any
> >> other place with PEMS equipment?
> >>
> >> Question: Does a person need to go to Oregon, or could the stove be
> sent
> >> with instructions? Cottage Grove is only convenient and inexpensive for
> >> those who live within a hundred miles!!
> >>
> >> And does Aprovecho have the SAME fuels as what Jim will be using? By
> the
> >> way, what are the acceptable fuels now at the EPA testing?
> >>
> >> Another question is how is the WBT used by the EPA different from which
> >> version of the other WBT's? I would like a short summary, not just a
> >> reference to multi-page documents where the methods are written but the
> >> differences are not pointed out.
> >>
> >> BTW, what TLUDs have been tested previously???
> >>
> >> ??? With fans: Oorja (yes) and Reed Campstove (??) and BioLyte (??)
> and
> >> Belonio (??) others?
> >>
> >> ??? And natural draft: Peko Pe (?) and experimental unit from StoveTec
> >> (yes) and what else?
> >>
> >> Paul
> >> --
> >> Paul S. Anderson, PhD
> >> Known to some as: Dr. TLUD Doc Professor
> >> Phone (USA): 309-452-7072 SKYPE: paultlud Email: psanders at ilstu.edu
> >> www.gtz.de/de/dokumente/**giz2011-en-micro-gasification.**pdf<
> http://www.gtz.de/de/dokumente/giz2011-en-micro-gasification.pdf> (Best
> ref.)
> >>
> >>
> >> Quoting Dean Still <deankstill at gmail.com>:
> >>
> >> Hi Stovers!
> >>>
> >>> Sorry to have been out of touch. My email was messed up in a subtle
> way.
> >>>
> >>> Jim Jetter (EPA/PCIA) is doing a second round of stove testing. He is
> >>> finding out fantastic things about emissions, testing, etc. We are very
> >>> lucky to have such a great guy and activity going on.
> >>>
> >>> Natural draft TLUDs were shown in the first round to successfully
> compete
> >>> with fan stoves for low fuel use and emissions. Congratulations to Tom
> >>> Reed,
> >>> Paal Wendelbo, Paul Anderson, Ron Larson, Christa Roth, etc who
> invented
> >>> and
> >>> developed the TLUD!
> >>>
> >>> To those who are going to submit a TLUD to Jim, please feel free, if
> >>> you'd
> >>> like, to come to our lab for a free tune up using the emissions hood.
> >>>
> >>> Strong hot coffee, Fall in Oregon, super low emissions. What could be
> >>> better?
> >>>
> >>> All Best,
> >>>
> >>> Dean
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------**------------------------------**----
> >> This message was sent using Illinois State University RedbirdMail
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Stoves mailing list
> >
> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> > stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> >
> >
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
> > http://www.bioenergylists.org/
> >
> >
> -------------- next part --------------
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> URL: <
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20111023/14232c05/attachment-0001.html
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 21:59:33 +0000 (UTC)
> From: rongretlarson at comcast.net
> To: Dean Still <deankstill at gmail.com>
> Cc: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Hi TLUDers -- and EPA testing questions
> Message-ID:
> <
> 2125014305.1056738.1319407173100.JavaMail.root at sz0133a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net
> >
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Dean - with few ccs.
>
>
> Thanks for the added information. Just a few more questions:
>
> 1. Have you ever tried to maximize char production - and what amount did
> you then obtain, if tried?
>
> 2. What was the mechanism for controlling primary air, if any - and did
> that help with the test?
>
> 3. For the reported PCIA numbers, what were the key dimensions (diameters,
> heights, fuel amount, etc).
>
> 4. Were you using a convective shield?
>
> 5. If tested in the field, any response yet by users?
>
> 6. Should manufacturing cost and lifetime be similar to your rocket?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Ron
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dean Still" <deankstill at gmail.com>
> To: rongretlarson at comcast.net
> Cc: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>, "Paul S. Anderson" <psanders at ilstu.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2011 3:16:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Hi TLUDers -- and EPA testing questions
>
> Hi Ron,
>
> Paul, Christa, Paal, Art and others taught at several TLUD oriented Stove
> Camps how to make TLUDs. All we did was to change different amounts of air,
> mixing, heat transfer strategies to the prototype design under the emissions
> hood. The emission hood lets us tune a stove the way cars are tuned.
>
> The TLUD we sent to Jim has a lot of fast air and mixing at the top of the
> fuel bed. We have the fuel sitting on a screen letting in as much bottom air
> as possible so the charcoal catches on fire and helps to cook the food or
> simmer the water. The stove burns up all the fuel. We pay a lot of attention
> to making the heat transfer to the pot as good as possible.
>
> I think it's really neat that a stove can either make bio-char or not by
> controlling the bottom air so consumers can pick what they want the stove to
> do.
>
> Great to hear from you.
>
> Dean
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 1:03 PM, < rongretlarson at comcast.net > wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Dean (cc list and Paul)
>
> Thanks for the PCIA link - which I found most interesting.
>
> I do not know anything about the Stove-Tec TLUD - which came across as
> being very successful.
>
> Can you either describe some details of your design - or send us to an
> existing web description? What might you have done differently than other
> TLUDS?
>
> Is there a reason that data for it were not in all the PCIA report graphs?
>
> Ron
>
>
> From: "Dean Still" < deankstill at gmail.com >
> To: "Paul S. Anderson" < psanders at ilstu.edu >
> Cc: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org >
> Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2011 6:28:32 PM
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Hi TLUDers -- and EPA testing questions
>
>
>
>
> http://www.pciaonline.org/files/PCIA_LabTestResults_webinar_final.pdf
>
>
> Hi Paul,
>
>
> Here's what PCIA published on the first round of testing. I see that a lot
> of your questions are answered there.
>
>
> My idea was that if TLUDers find it useful they can for free use our
> emission equipment.
>
>
> All Best,
>
>
> Dean
>
> On Sat, Oct 22, 2011 at 5:00 PM, Paul S. Anderson < psanders at ilstu.edu >
> wrote:
>
> <blockquote>
> Dear Dean and all,
>
> I know of at least 5 TLUDs, each from a separate PCIA Partner, that have
> been proposed for testing by Jim Jetter for this third round.
>
> The Aprovecho offer of a free tune up under the emissions hood is nice. Is
> that offer matched by Zamorano in Honduras or CREEC in Uganda or any other
> place with PEMS equipment?
>
> Question: Does a person need to go to Oregon, or could the stove be sent
> with instructions? Cottage Grove is only convenient and inexpensive for
> those who live within a hundred miles!!
>
> And does Aprovecho have the SAME fuels as what Jim will be using? By the
> way, what are the acceptable fuels now at the EPA testing?
>
> Another question is how is the WBT used by the EPA different from which
> version of the other WBT's? I would like a short summary, not just a
> reference to multi-page documents where the methods are written but the
> differences are not pointed out.
>
> BTW, what TLUDs have been tested previously???
>
> ??? With fans: Oorja (yes) and Reed Campstove (??) and BioLyte (??) and
> Belonio (??) others?
>
> ??? And natural draft: Peko Pe (?) and experimental unit from StoveTec
> (yes) and what else?
>
> Paul
> --
> Paul S. Anderson, PhD
> Known to some as: Dr. TLUD Doc Professor
> Phone (USA): 309-452-7072 SKYPE: paultlud Email: psanders at ilstu.edu
> www.gtz.de/de/dokumente/ giz2011-en-micro-gasification. pdf (Best ref.)
>
>
> Quoting Dean Still < deankstill at gmail.com >:
>
>
> <blockquote>
> Hi Stovers!
>
> Sorry to have been out of touch. My email was messed up in a subtle way.
>
> Jim Jetter (EPA/PCIA) is doing a second round of stove testing. He is
> finding out fantastic things about emissions, testing, etc. We are very
> lucky to have such a great guy and activity going on.
>
> Natural draft TLUDs were shown in the first round to successfully compete
> with fan stoves for low fuel use and emissions. Congratulations to Tom
> Reed,
> Paal Wendelbo, Paul Anderson, Ron Larson, Christa Roth, etc who invented
> and
> developed the TLUD!
>
> To those who are going to submit a TLUD to Jim, please feel free, if you'd
> like, to come to our lab for a free tune up using the emissions hood.
>
> Strong hot coffee, Fall in Oregon, super low emissions. What could be
> better?
>
> All Best,
>
> Dean
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------ ------------------------------ ----
> This message was sent using Illinois State University RedbirdMail
>
>
>
> </blockquote>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>
>
> </blockquote>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
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> URL: <
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20111023/0802b6e6/attachment-0001.html
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 17:54:43 -0700
> From: Dean Still <deankstill at gmail.com>
> To: rongretlarson at comcast.net
> Cc: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Hi TLUDers -- and EPA testing questions
> Message-ID:
> <CA+tShZub4TDXPHpNok8wZmfUGAFx1FnH1-smdfFJO_7av8c9eg at mail.gmail.com
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi Ron,
>
> 1.) For the EPA we tried to burn all the fuel about 2/3 as wood and 1/3 as
> charcoal to get the best fuel economy.
> 2.) As far as I can tell, no primary air can make it up through the pellets
> until 2/3 fuel is gone and the bottom air gets up through the remaining
> charcoal.
> 3.) I don't remember exactly. We used a StoveTec Rocket and added something
> like a 9" chimney. We probably used around 1000 grams of fuel to begin.
> 4.) No.
> 5.) No field tests yet.
> 6.) TLUD cost could be the same as a Rocket.
>
> I hope that some place in the world will be positioned to make 100%
> renewable pellets, get carbon credits, and use super clean TLUDs. We'll
> see.
> Natural draft is obviously easier than having to use an electric fan. I
> think that it's possible that some government or large business will follow
> the BP model. I think that the job of the stove movement is to be ready
> with
> the engineering design principles for TLUDs, fan stoves, super clean
> Rockets
> when a capable entity is ready to move forward.
>
> All Best,
>
> Dean
>
> On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 2:59 PM, <rongretlarson at comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > Dean - with few ccs.
> >
> >
> > Thanks for the added information. Just a few more questions:
> >
> > 1. Have you ever tried to maximize char production - and what amount did
> > you then obtain, if tried?
> >
> > 2. What was the mechanism for controlling primary air, if any - and did
> > that help with the test?
> >
> > 3. For the reported PCIA numbers, what were the key dimensions
> (diameters,
> > heights, fuel amount, etc).
> >
> > 4. Were you using a convective shield?
> >
> > 5. If tested in the field, any response yet by users?
> >
> > 6. Should manufacturing cost and lifetime be similar to your rocket?
> >
> > Thanks in advance.
> >
> >
> > Ron
> > ------------------------------
> > *From: *"Dean Still" <deankstill at gmail.com>
> > *To: *rongretlarson at comcast.net
> > *Cc: *"Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <
> > stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>, "Paul S. Anderson" <psanders at ilstu.edu
> >
> > *Sent: *Sunday, October 23, 2011 3:16:18 PM
> >
> > *Subject: *Re: [Stoves] Hi TLUDers -- and EPA testing questions
> >
> > Hi Ron,
> >
> > Paul, Christa, Paal, Art and others taught at several TLUD oriented Stove
> > Camps how to make TLUDs. All we did was to change different amounts of
> air,
> > mixing, heat transfer strategies to the prototype design under the
> emissions
> > hood. The emission hood lets us tune a stove the way cars are tuned.
> >
> > The TLUD we sent to Jim has a lot of fast air and mixing at the top of
> the
> > fuel bed. We have the fuel sitting on a screen letting in as much bottom
> air
> > as possible so the charcoal catches on fire and helps to cook the food or
> > simmer the water. The stove burns up all the fuel. We pay a lot of
> attention
> > to making the heat transfer to the pot as good as possible.
> >
> > I think it's really neat that a stove can either make bio-char or not by
> > controlling the bottom air so consumers can pick what they want the stove
> to
> > do.
> >
> > Great to hear from you.
> >
> > Dean
> >
> > On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 1:03 PM, <rongretlarson at comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Dean (cc list and Paul)
> >>
> >> Thanks for the PCIA link - which I found most interesting.
> >>
> >> I do not know anything about the Stove-Tec TLUD - which came across
> >> as being very successful.
> >>
> >> Can you either describe some details of your design - or send us to
> an
> >> existing web description? What might you have done differently than
> other
> >> TLUDS?
> >>
> >> Is there a reason that data for it were not in all the PCIA report
> >> graphs?
> >>
> >> Ron
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >> *From: *"Dean Still" <deankstill at gmail.com>
> >> *To: *"Paul S. Anderson" <psanders at ilstu.edu>
> >> *Cc: *"Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <
> >> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> >> *Sent: *Saturday, October 22, 2011 6:28:32 PM
> >> *Subject: *Re: [Stoves] Hi TLUDers -- and EPA testing questions
> >>
> >>
> >> http://www.pciaonline.org/files/PCIA_LabTestResults_webinar_final.pdf
> >>
> >> Hi Paul,
> >>
> >> Here's what PCIA published on the first round of testing. I see that a
> lot
> >> of your questions are answered there.
> >>
> >> My idea was that if TLUDers find it useful they can for free use our
> >> emission equipment.
> >>
> >> All Best,
> >>
> >> Dean
> >>
> >> On Sat, Oct 22, 2011 at 5:00 PM, Paul S. Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu
> >wrote:
> >>
> >>> Dear Dean and all,
> >>>
> >>> I know of at least 5 TLUDs, each from a separate PCIA Partner, that
> have
> >>> been proposed for testing by Jim Jetter for this third round.
> >>>
> >>> The Aprovecho offer of a free tune up under the emissions hood is nice.
> >>> Is that offer matched by Zamorano in Honduras or CREEC in Uganda or
> any
> >>> other place with PEMS equipment?
> >>>
> >>> Question: Does a person need to go to Oregon, or could the stove be
> sent
> >>> with instructions? Cottage Grove is only convenient and inexpensive
> for
> >>> those who live within a hundred miles!!
> >>>
> >>> And does Aprovecho have the SAME fuels as what Jim will be using? By
> >>> the way, what are the acceptable fuels now at the EPA testing?
> >>>
> >>> Another question is how is the WBT used by the EPA different from which
> >>> version of the other WBT's? I would like a short summary, not just a
> >>> reference to multi-page documents where the methods are written but the
> >>> differences are not pointed out.
> >>>
> >>> BTW, what TLUDs have been tested previously???
> >>>
> >>> ??? With fans: Oorja (yes) and Reed Campstove (??) and BioLyte (??)
> and
> >>> Belonio (??) others?
> >>>
> >>> ??? And natural draft: Peko Pe (?) and experimental unit from
> StoveTec
> >>> (yes) and what else?
> >>>
> >>> Paul
> >>> --
> >>> Paul S. Anderson, PhD
> >>> Known to some as: Dr. TLUD Doc Professor
> >>> Phone (USA): 309-452-7072 SKYPE: paultlud Email:
> psanders at ilstu.edu
> >>> www.gtz.de/de/dokumente/**giz2011-en-micro-gasification.**pdf<
> http://www.gtz.de/de/dokumente/giz2011-en-micro-gasification.pdf> (Best
> ref.)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Quoting Dean Still <deankstill at gmail.com>:
> >>>
> >>> Hi Stovers!
> >>>>
> >>>> Sorry to have been out of touch. My email was messed up in a subtle
> way.
> >>>>
> >>>> Jim Jetter (EPA/PCIA) is doing a second round of stove testing. He is
> >>>> finding out fantastic things about emissions, testing, etc. We are
> very
> >>>> lucky to have such a great guy and activity going on.
> >>>>
> >>>> Natural draft TLUDs were shown in the first round to successfully
> >>>> compete
> >>>> with fan stoves for low fuel use and emissions. Congratulations to Tom
> >>>> Reed,
> >>>> Paal Wendelbo, Paul Anderson, Ron Larson, Christa Roth, etc who
> invented
> >>>> and
> >>>> developed the TLUD!
> >>>>
> >>>> To those who are going to submit a TLUD to Jim, please feel free, if
> >>>> you'd
> >>>> like, to come to our lab for a free tune up using the emissions hood.
> >>>>
> >>>> Strong hot coffee, Fall in Oregon, super low emissions. What could be
> >>>> better?
> >>>>
> >>>> All Best,
> >>>>
> >>>> Dean
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ------------------------------**------------------------------**----
> >>> This message was sent using Illinois State University RedbirdMail
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Stoves mailing list
> >>
> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> >> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >>
> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> >>
> >>
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
> >>
> >> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
> >> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
> >>
> >>
> >
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2011 03:22:23 +0000 (UTC)
> From: rongretlarson at comcast.net
> To: Dean Still <deankstill at gmail.com>
> Cc: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Hi TLUDers -- and EPA testing questions
> Message-ID:
> <
> 1973278263.1068477.1319426543428.JavaMail.root at sz0133a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net
> >
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>
> Dean with stove ccs. Thanks - only a few slight questions (maybe for
> others) - but a few inserted further comments below.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dean Still" <deankstill at gmail.com>
> To: rongretlarson at comcast.net
> Cc: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>, "Paul S. Anderson" <psanders at ilstu.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2011 6:54:43 PM
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Hi TLUDers -- and EPA testing questions
>
> Hi Ron,
>
> 1.) For the EPA we tried to burn all the fuel about 2/3 as wood and 1/3 as
> charcoal to get the best fuel economy.
> [RWL: Most char-making estimates are that (if char had been retained), the
> char weight would have been about 1/5 to 1/3 (average of 1/4??) of the
> initial weight - leaving (maybe) 1/2 of the initial carbon in the biomass.
> But because pyrolysis removes most of the hydrogen, more than half of the
> initial energy content has appeared as gases/liquids when pyrolysis stops
> and gasification begins. Just saying that the 2/3 and 1/3 values could be
> right on, but the analysis is pretty complicated. ]
>
> 2.) As far as I can tell, no primary air can make it up through the pellets
> until 2/3 fuel is gone and the bottom air gets up through the remaining
> charcoal.
> [RWL: It sounds like there was no "door" placed over the usual Stove-Tec
> opening, so perhaps other owners of Stove-Tecs can also test this in some
> way. It sounds like it would have been difficult to capture much char - but
> you were seeing several nice advantages from top lighting. For those not
> having experience with TLUDs, Dean's reference to "no primary air can make
> it up", means that the oxygen is "entirely" used to produce carbon monoxide.
> I am presuming that for Dean's specific geometry, there is some side air
> entry when the pyrolysis front has moved down by 2/3 (but I may not yet have
> the geometry right).]
>
> 3.) I don't remember exactly. We used a StoveTec Rocket and added something
> like a 9" chimney. We probably used around 1000 grams of fuel to begin.
> [RWL: I think it is great that you tried this approach and had good
> results. I hope others will try something similar. The emissions results
> indicate this is a promising approach.
>
> 4.) No.
> [RWL: Anyone know the PCIA rules on using convective shields? Shouldn't
> their use be strongly encouraged? It sounds like you have given your own
> test results and they may not have been the same as in the PCIA/EPA report?]
>
> Thanks for all above and next 2 answers. ]
>
> 5.) No field tests yet.
> 6.) TLUD cost could be the same as a Rocket.
>
> I hope that some place in the world will be positioned to make 100%
> renewable pellets, get carbon credits, and use super clean TLUDs. We'll see.
> Natural draft is obviously easier than having to use an electric fan. I
> think that it's possible that some government or large business will follow
> the BP model. I think that the job of the stove movement is to be ready with
> the engineering design principles for TLUDs, fan stoves, super clean Rockets
> when a capable entity is ready to move forward.
>
> [RWL: There is a lot happening out there now with TLUDs (and Nat Mulcahy's
> very different TLOD) - with both ND and fans. Also a lot of business models
> - including quite a few where the char is saved for (a little because of)
> carbon negativity and (more now for) soil augmentation reasons. Your tests
> showing such good emissions and efficiency results should help make these
> sort of rocket stove improvements happen faster. Thanks again for doing the
> testing and for many good answers above.
> Sorry - two more questions - the charcoal-consuming jikos looked pretty bad
> in the PCIA report. Can you (or anyone) report on any emission differences
> in your case during the early and late parts of your (or EPA) runs? Can I
> assume that the efficiency numbers for the jikos took no notice of the
> energy losses in making the charcoal?
>
> Ron ]
>
> All Best,
>
> Dean
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 2:59 PM, < rongretlarson at comcast.net > wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Dean - with few ccs.
>
>
> Thanks for the added information. Just a few more questions:
>
> 1. Have you ever tried to maximize char production - and what amount did
> you then obtain, if tried?
>
> 2. What was the mechanism for controlling primary air, if any - and did
> that help with the test?
>
> 3. For the reported PCIA numbers, what were the key dimensions (diameters,
> heights, fuel amount, etc).
>
> 4. Were you using a convective shield?
>
> 5. If tested in the field, any response yet by users?
>
> 6. Should manufacturing cost and lifetime be similar to your rocket?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
> Ron
>
> From: "Dean Still" < deankstill at gmail.com >
> To: rongretlarson at comcast.net
> Cc: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org >, "Paul S. Anderson" < psanders at ilstu.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2011 3:16:18 PM
>
>
>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Hi TLUDers -- and EPA testing questions
>
> Hi Ron,
>
> Paul, Christa, Paal, Art and others taught at several TLUD oriented Stove
> Camps how to make TLUDs. All we did was to change different amounts of air,
> mixing, heat transfer strategies to the prototype design under the emissions
> hood. The emission hood lets us tune a stove the way cars are tuned.
>
> The TLUD we sent to Jim has a lot of fast air and mixing at the top of the
> fuel bed. We have the fuel sitting on a screen letting in as much bottom air
> as possible so the charcoal catches on fire and helps to cook the food or
> simmer the water. The stove burns up all the fuel. We pay a lot of attention
> to making the heat transfer to the pot as good as possible.
>
> I think it's really neat that a stove can either make bio-char or not by
> controlling the bottom air so consumers can pick what they want the stove to
> do.
>
> Great to hear from you.
>
> Dean
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 1:03 PM, < rongretlarson at comcast.net > wrote:
>
> <blockquote>
>
>
> Dean (cc list and Paul)
>
> Thanks for the PCIA link - which I found most interesting.
>
> I do not know anything about the Stove-Tec TLUD - which came across as
> being very successful.
>
> Can you either describe some details of your design - or send us to an
> existing web description? What might you have done differently than other
> TLUDS?
>
> Is there a reason that data for it were not in all the PCIA report graphs?
>
> Ron
>
>
> From: "Dean Still" < deankstill at gmail.com >
> To: "Paul S. Anderson" < psanders at ilstu.edu >
> Cc: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org >
> Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2011 6:28:32 PM
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Hi TLUDers -- and EPA testing questions
>
>
>
>
> http://www.pciaonline.org/files/PCIA_LabTestResults_webinar_final.pdf
>
>
> Hi Paul,
>
>
> Here's what PCIA published on the first round of testing. I see that a lot
> of your questions are answered there.
>
>
> My idea was that if TLUDers find it useful they can for free use our
> emission equipment.
>
>
> All Best,
>
>
> Dean
>
> On Sat, Oct 22, 2011 at 5:00 PM, Paul S. Anderson < psanders at ilstu.edu >
> wrote:
>
> <blockquote>
> Dear Dean and all,
>
> I know of at least 5 TLUDs, each from a separate PCIA Partner, that have
> been proposed for testing by Jim Jetter for this third round.
>
> The Aprovecho offer of a free tune up under the emissions hood is nice. Is
> that offer matched by Zamorano in Honduras or CREEC in Uganda or any other
> place with PEMS equipment?
>
> Question: Does a person need to go to Oregon, or could the stove be sent
> with instructions? Cottage Grove is only convenient and inexpensive for
> those who live within a hundred miles!!
>
> And does Aprovecho have the SAME fuels as what Jim will be using? By the
> way, what are the acceptable fuels now at the EPA testing?
>
> Another question is how is the WBT used by the EPA different from which
> version of the other WBT's? I would like a short summary, not just a
> reference to multi-page documents where the methods are written but the
> differences are not pointed out.
>
> BTW, what TLUDs have been tested previously???
>
> ??? With fans: Oorja (yes) and Reed Campstove (??) and BioLyte (??) and
> Belonio (??) others?
>
> ??? And natural draft: Peko Pe (?) and experimental unit from StoveTec
> (yes) and what else?
>
> Paul
> --
> Paul S. Anderson, PhD
> Known to some as: Dr. TLUD Doc Professor
> Phone (USA): 309-452-7072 SKYPE: paultlud Email: psanders at ilstu.edu
> www.gtz.de/de/dokumente/ giz2011-en-micro-gasification. pdf (Best ref.)
>
>
> Quoting Dean Still < deankstill at gmail.com >:
>
>
> <blockquote>
> Hi Stovers!
>
> Sorry to have been out of touch. My email was messed up in a subtle way.
>
> Jim Jetter (EPA/PCIA) is doing a second round of stove testing. He is
> finding out fantastic things about emissions, testing, etc. We are very
> lucky to have such a great guy and activity going on.
>
> Natural draft TLUDs were shown in the first round to successfully compete
> with fan stoves for low fuel use and emissions. Congratulations to Tom
> Reed,
> Paal Wendelbo, Paul Anderson, Ron Larson, Christa Roth, etc who invented
> and
> developed the TLUD!
>
> To those who are going to submit a TLUD to Jim, please feel free, if you'd
> like, to come to our lab for a free tune up using the emissions hood.
>
> Strong hot coffee, Fall in Oregon, super low emissions. What could be
> better?
>
> All Best,
>
> Dean
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------ ------------------------------ ----
> This message was sent using Illinois State University RedbirdMail
>
>
>
> </blockquote>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>
>
> </blockquote>
>
>
> </blockquote>
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2011 09:37:46 +0530
> From: "Prof. S.C. Bhattacharya" <sribasb at gmail.com>
> To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> Subject: [Stoves] Gasifier stove and related work at the Asian
> institute of Technology
> Message-ID:
> <CANiw=ee-xsCuqa3H2KdcQ0ZEnihb+jy37BY1+P-SfWi=VJtwZQ at mail.gmail.com
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Dear all,
>
> I would be happy to share some publications arising from the following
> activities at the Asian Institute of Technology:
>
> 1. Sida funded Regional project: An information package (including
> construction details) on biomass briquetting machines developed in a number
> of Asian countries and design of natural- cross-draft gasifier stoves that
> can operate continuously is available. The briquetting machines developed
> were improvements on standard screw-press heated die design. Cross-flow
> gasifier stoves were designed for different sizes; these do not need any
> blower and can operate continuously without any smoke.
>
> 2. GTZ funded project on Biocoal: We used the term "Biocoal" (rather than
> "Biochar") for charcoal produced from solid organic residues such as
> agricultural residues and waste wood. The findings of the project were
> reported in a book titled "Biocoal Technology and Economics" by "Regional
> Energy Resources Information Center (RERIC)" (email:enreric at ait.ac.th).
> The
> chapters of the 495-page book were: 1. State of the art of biocoal
> technology, 2. Biocoal technology: A comparison of options and
> recommendations, 3. Carbonisation of sawdust briquettes, 4.
> Laboratory-scale
> batch carbonisation selected residues, 5. Cost and availability of selected
> residues in Thailand, 6. Characterisation of selected residues, 7. Biocoal:
> Market requirements and Opportunities in Thailand, and 8. Economics of
> biocoal production in Thailand.
>
> A few copies of the book are still available with RERIC. A number of
> chapters of the book were summarised as journal articles; I will be happy
> to
> share some of these with interested persons for their personal use and
> research purpose.
>
> S.C. Bhattacharya
> --
> Prof. S.C. Bhattacharya, Ph.D. (Cambridge, UK)
> President, International Energy Initiative
> Adjunct Professor, Indian Institute of Social Welfare and
> Business Management (IISWBM), Kolkata, India.
> Associate Editor, Solar Energy
> Former Professor & Coordinator, Energy Program,
> Asian Institute of Technology, Pathumthani, Thailand
> T2/17A, Diamond City South, 58 M.G. Road, Tollygunge
> Kolkata 700041
> Mobile: +91-9831476944
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2011 00:39:34 -0400
> From: "Paal wendelbo" <paaw at online.no>
> To: <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: [Stoves] Re Hi TLUDerss
> Message-ID: <5ED61E9C6BC9450EB39D19E0050DAAA9 at firmanav10a4e1>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
> Dear Anderson, Crispin and Richard.
>
> The main principals for our projects I will call it community
> based participation both for fuel and for stove productions. Utilization of
> local resources with other words.. The Peko Pe is designed for production by
> local tinsmith with the tools they might have. They only need a template and
> a model; they have the knowledge how to make it.
>
> First of all we discuss the need of changes, and then on the
> fuel side we start up with registration of alternative biomass for fuel for
> briquetting, energy forestry for fuel production. We always start with the
> fuel .to be sure there is sufficient quantities and to an affordable price.
>
> The charcoal business, which represents about 15 % of the adult
> population, has to be involved from an early stage of the project. All kind
> of activities on the household energy sector will in one or another way have
> an influence of their business, and with biochar we don?t know what will
> happen, but that is one of the ting we will try to find out. Any how for the
> charcoal business it is just to change from charcoal to alternative biomass
> for household energy.
>
> The energy loss by production of biochar for soil improvement is
> almost equivalent to the energy needed for the farmer to cook if you include
> the African way of thinking time is coming not like by us time is running
> That is a big difference. A household need about 2,7 kg charcoal a day for
> cooking. Form about 10 kg of dry wood you will get 2,7 kg of charcoal for
> one day cooking and no biochar. From .10 kg of dry wood you will get 10 kg
> of woodchips and that will be for 2 ? day of cooking into a TLUD-ND. and
> about 2.7 kg of biochar. The pilot project will tell us if this is right or
> wrong..
>
> Crispin, you tell your Chinese friends to start with the fuel,
> e.g. like Richard. I think you know, when you have the fuel it?s easy tor
> local tinsmiths to make an efficient TLUD-ND stove.and they need the job.
>
> With regards Paal W paaw at online.no
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> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
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> End of Stoves Digest, Vol 14, Issue 40
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"SeaChar.Org...positive tools for carbon negative living"
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