[Stoves] Stoves Digest, Vol 31, Issue 17
Sunil Pawar
phoenix_energy at rediffmail.com
Sat Mar 23 08:13:46 CDT 2013
Sir,
This is sunil Pawar from india.basically briquette manf.newly fabricated a ND TLUD stove by taking
all the helpfull guidlines from all of you expertes through net.added some ideas and finaly made it.very good responce from scociety.
500 gms briquette gives 50 min cooking for 5-6 members family with hardly any smoke.i wanted to minimise the smoke.pls guide about primary and sec. air
air ratio incase of ND and FD.thanking you.pls see attachment
thanking u
Sunil pawar
Phoenix Enterprises
Chiplun,Dist Ratnagiri,Maharashtra,India
cell-+91 09422053469
On Fri, 22 Mar 2013 23:31:09 +0530 wrote
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Today's Topics:
1. Second report from Phnom Penh (jed.building.bridges at gmail.com)
2. Major stove-test proposal (Paul Anderson)
3. Re: [biochar] First report from Phnom Penh (Anand Karve)
4. Re: [biochar] First report from Phnom Penh
(Crispin Pemberton-Pigott)
5. Re: [biochar] First report from Phnom Penh (Paul Olivier)
6. Re: [biochar] First report from Phnom Penh (Alex English)
7. Re: [biochar] First report from Phnom Penh
(Crispin Pemberton-Pigott)
8. Re: [biochar] First report from Phnom Penh (Kevin)
9. Re: Second report from Phnom Penh (Tom Miles)
10. Fifth and (semi?) final report from Phnom Penh (both stoves
and biochar focus) (rongretlarson at comcast.net)
11. Re: [biochar] First report from Phnom Penh (Paul Olivier)
12. Re: [biochar] First report from Phnom Penh (Paul Olivier)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 11:07:38 -0700
From:
To: "'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'"
Subject: [Stoves] Second report from Phnom Penh
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
HI All
This is Jed Guinto from the Philippines also at the GACC conference here at
Phnom Penh. Hi Ron... i did not meet you yet... but met Dean Still and
briefly Christa Rot. Im so happy to be here and finally meet all the
geniuses of the stove sector. I also had the chance to chat with Crispin
Pembertton Pigott and had a handful of advice and exchange of news.
Then i met people from GERES, the French NGO. The conversation with Iwan
Baskoro was very fruitful because he laid out the history of their efforts
in the Philippines, on which i may build upon.
I joined the session on the Stoves Health and Sanitation. The diiscussion
went deep into behavior change and bio char among others. The presentation
of Mr. Larry Sthreshley from his work in Congo talked about the connection
of cookstoves into food security, and that is through biochar.
The call for biochar again resounded during the breakout group session for
SouthEast Asia. The moderator, Ms. Sununtar Stboonsarng of ADB, at the end
of the session made the remark... suggesting that the GACC put particular
focus on bio char. It is because it would be the link of the stoves to
health, sanitation and water.
I had a grand time over the exhibits.... the Onil Stove, the
EnviroFit.....the Solar cookers and ovens and also had a nice photo with
Dean Still.. He is a big man indeed... in his deeds and in his size. It
would have been nice to see an exhibit by the BioLite, but it was not there
.
On Thursday, i will join the site visit to the sugar processing station
where they use solar power. I would like to follow a hybrid model of a stove
and solar power coming together.
Hope to meet more of you in the conference.
Jed
2013/3/20
Hi again all (adding Dean Still)
1. Very good opening plenary with lead off by UC Berkeley Prof Kirk Smith -
the most well known world expert in stove health topics (Household Air
Pollution (HAP) now #4 killer - about 4 million per year. Emphasized
difficulty of making changes. He was followed by U Illinois professor Tami
Bond, who was the main speaker at the last Ethos conference and who has also
done a lot of stove testing.
2. I then attended a breakout session chaired by Christa Roth of GIZ. She
also was at last ETHOS meeting and has great summary book on char-making and
gasifier stoves. Great talk by Paul Means of Burn Lab (Seattle) on the
(mostly transportation) reasons NOT to work with charcoal made in remote
areas.
3. I missed the next plenary on major country GACC programs, but attended
a well-done breakout survey of stove activities in China.
Here Dean Still raved about the capabilities of the Chinese stove community.
In particular the Stove Tec main Chinese partner was there (Mr. Chen or
Shen). Apparently there is little activity with char-making stoves (I will
try to get Dean's view on that). But at the same Chinese meeting today, I
met several groups that are working in China on char-making stoves. GACC
might have a list of Chinese stove manufacturers.
Talked with several Chinese forestry experts (and China is doing quite
well in this area)..
4. Tonight was the main banquet - during most of which we were entertained
by 25-30 young Cambodian folk dancers/musicians..
5. Afterwards, I visited the small display area of stoves - maybe 20 in
all and maybe 5 were char making. Gustavo Pena of El Salvador showed me a
char-making stove of his own design with lots of "attachments" (including
an oven) [couldn't find a website]. Also saw several stoves being sold in
China by Dylan Maxwell of Novotera and Planetstove. More coming on this.
Again I hope others will jump in.
Ron
_____
From: rongretlarson at comcast.net
To: "Discussion of biomass" , "biochar"
Cc: "Priyadarshini Karve" , ",\"paul anderson"
, "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" ,
Ruben at ace.co.ls, adrian at rocketworks.org, sonta at emerging.se
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 8:19:14 AM
Subject: First report from Phnom Penh
Hi to two lists (with 6 ccs)
1. This written at end of "first" day of conference. Actually the
official first GACC day is tomorrow, but today was also the second day of
pre-conference activities.. List members active on these two lists, here
(and shown on the "to" list), who I hope will add more are Priya Karve, Paul
Anderson and Crispin Pemberton-Piggott. I missed the first day - Sunday -
returning from Siem Reap - home of Angkor Wat. This is definitely the
most impressive world heritage site I have seen or could imagine. Uniformly
impressed by the Cambodian people.
2. My overall impression is that very few attendees know much about
biochar nor char-making stoves. Of course most everyone knows something
about stoves - although I would guess that fewer than half have been
involved for more than a year or two Heard tonight that there are 650
registrants. Great conference facilities; no conference registration fee
and fair number of freebie meals, coffee-break treats etc.
3. My first surprise char-making stove encounter was with Sonta Kauti, a
Zambian with "Emerging Cooking Solutions" - whose stove can be seen at
www.emerging.se. I have not yet seen the actual stove, nor yet know its
pricing - but plan more talks with Sonta
4. Next was a short encounter with Ruben Walker of "African Clean Energy"
(see http://www.ace.co.ls/), now manufacturing in Lesotho the "Philips" fan
stove developed by Paul van der Sluis (PvdS). This has been identified as
having the best performance characteristics so far tested. This was my
first chance to hold one - and it looks exceptionally well made. A surprise
was the set of 10 or 12 (?) flat ceramic liner pieces for the interior
(maybe 1 cm thick??). Presumably long life time - being non-metal. Ruben
said one could hold the outside of the stove after an hour of cooking
-possible because there are four concentric metal cylinders (three
concentric air gaps). This stove is not char making - but I remember
hearing that PvdS regularly operates it as a charcoal-maker. Cost in
neighborhood of $70.
5. Later, at this evening's reception, Mr. Adrian Padt of "Rocket Works"
introduced himself (see http://www.rocketworks.org/ - including photo of
Adrian). This is the stove with the interesting heavy wire mesh exterior
that we discussed a few months ago - also can be held. This also looked
exceptionally well made and rugged. Cost in the neighborhood of $50. In
addition to the version seen at the site, they are now adding a door to
better control excess air.
6. I attended a day-long session put on by the World Bank and the Asian
Development Bank.- the emphasis was on country organizations in this region.
Crispin was on what I thought the best panel - on testing, etc. This is to
hope that Priya, Paul, and Crispin (and anyone else from these lists here
in Phnom Penh) will also add their early summary thoughts.
Any questions I/we can try to answer?
Ron
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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 18:41:54 -0500
From: Paul Anderson
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
,"biochar at yahoogroups.com"
, Hugh McLaughlin ,
Bob Fairchild , Noeli Anderson
, Doc Anderson , Ranyee
Chiang
Subject: [Stoves] Major stove-test proposal
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
Dear All,
Here at the GACC Forum, a truly major proposal about adjustments of
stove-testing method has been made. It is just beginning to reach
those who should be involved. Feel free to forward the attached
document to others. And I understand that some additional proposals
are being formulated, but I have no details on them.
I will send further comments eventually, but you can start
discussions. The conference is very productive. Including some truly
meaningful TLUD progress!!!
Paul
--
Paul S. Anderson, PhD aka "Dr TLUD"
Email: psanders at ilstu.edu Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: www.drtlud.com
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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 06:23:42 +0530
From: Anand Karve
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
Subject: Re: [Stoves] [biochar] First report from Phnom Penh
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
Dear Paul, Ron and others,
I was instrumental in the development of an urban biogas plant, which does
not use cattle dung but uses food waste as feedstock. One kg dry weight of
starch, sugar, cellulose, protein or any other kind of human food produces
about 1 kg biogas. My biogas plant could normally accept only 1gram (dry
weight) food waste per litre capacity of digester. Our experiments in
which the biogas digester was filled with charcoal made it possible
to increase the quantity of food waste to three grams per litre, with three
times as much biogas becoming available from the same plant. This worked
for about three months and then the higher efficiency was no longer
available. It is a common observation, that a biogas plant works better, if
chemical fertilizers are added to the feedstock. I have been thinking about
this and it appears to me that it was the minerals in the biochar, that
were contributing to this phenomenon. After the organisms in the biogas
plant had consumed the minerals, the higher efficiency was no longer
available.
The same phenomenon might be responsible for the higher yield in fields
provided with biochar.
Yours
A.D.Karve
On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 12:24 PM, Paul Olivier wrote:
> Kevin,
>
> Thanks very much for your reflection. Toward the end, you raise the
> interesting question: which is worth more, biochar as a fuel or biochar as
> an agricultural product? Let me come down strongly in favor of biochar as
> an agricultural product. At the end of the same presentation, I ask the
> question: what is the value of biochar when cattle put on 25% more weight
> than those in the control group, when enteric methane emissions from the
> same cattle are reduced by 42%, when mustard greens grow at a rate 400%
> faster than the control group, or when the same mustard greens have 40%
> less fiber and 35% more protein? About 20 experiments were carried put with
> rice hull biochar from my gasifiers, and all indicated much higher plant
> and animal growth. How then do we put a value on biochar, when current
> prices for biochar do not yet reflect this new reality? If we burn biochar,
> all goes up in a puff of smoke. If we use biochar in agriculture, we use a
> lot less feed and a lot less fertilizer for the same end result, and the
> benefits stay with us a very long time.
>
> We stand in urgent need for a lot more biochar studies in a lot more
> agricultural settings. What we are trying to do at the moment is to
> understand why biochar has such a dramatic effect when used in agriculture.
> Yes, we can point to its pore structure, to its surface area, to its cation
> and anion exchange capacities, to its pH and to its water-holding capacity.
> But these elements alone do not give a complete picture. Over 20 years ago,
> Japanese scientists were pointing out how biochar promotes the growth of
> abuscular mycorrhizal fungi. I have a strong suspicion that these
> scientists were leading us in the right direction. So in some of the next
> biochar studies that Dr. Preston will conduct, he will focus on how biochar
> promotes the growth of AM fungi.
>
> Thanks.
> Paul
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 11:57 AM, Kevin wrote:
>
>> **
>> Dear Paul
>>
>> Thanks very much for your very interesting slide Presentation on your
>> Stove, and the explanation of "Rice Hull Biochar and Fuel Gas
>> Production.Economics."
>>
>> Basically, 1 kg of free rice hulls yields $US 0.24 worth of pyrolysis gas
>> for heating and 350 grams of Rice Hull Biochar worth about $0.30 per kg, or
>> say $ 0.10
>>
>> A typical Vietnamese Family would consume about 1 MT of Rice Hulls per
>> year, producing pyrolysis gas for cooking, worth about $240, and 350 kG of
>> Biochar worth about $100, total $350 per year in the value of cooking
>> energy + biochar sales per year.
>>
>> If your #150 stove sold for $40, it could pay for itself in less than 1/2
>> year, with sales of biochar alone, the value of the pyrolysis gases for
>> cooking would be the equivalent of about 1 bottle of LPG per month, ie, an
>> additional $22 per month of "free money." If the use of the pyrolysis gas
>> displaced the need to purchase 1 bottle of LPG per month, then total
>> savings would be about $22 + $8 = $30 per month, and the stove would be
>> paid for in less than 2 months. This indeed would be a very attractive
>> money making investment for the family.
>>
>> The method of financing the stoves that you propose is very attractive to
>> the Typical Family, where a Charcoal Merchant would supply the stove to the
>> Family, and they would pay for the stove with the charcoal they produced.
>>
>> The above numbers indicate that, at $0.30 per kG, the char production
>> sells for $300 per MT.. If this was the value of the char, when sold into
>> the "Biochar market", what would be the value of the char when sold into
>> the "Charcoal Fuel market"?, If the value of the char when sold into the
>> "Biochar Market" was greater than its value when sold into the Charcoal
>> Fuel Market, then it would get used as biochar, but if it had more value as
>> Charcoal fuel, it would be advantageous to the Family to sell it into the
>> fuel market.
>>
>> it looks like you have a very attractive Stove Project!
>>
>> Best wishes for every success!
>>
>> Kevin
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Paul Olivier
>> *To:* Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>> *Cc:* biochar at yahoogroups.com ;adrian at rocketworks.org ;
>> sonta at emerging.se ;Ruben at ace.co.ls ;Priyadarshini Karve
>> *Sent:* Monday, March 18, 2013 9:08 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [Stoves] [biochar] First report from Phnom Penh
>>
>> Kevin,
>>
>> Biochar can have significant value even in poor countries. For example,
>> here in Dalat rice hull biochar is used extensively as a soil amendment.
>> If a poor household can produce one kg of biochar per day and sell it at a
>> fair market price, this will cover the cost of the means to produce it in
>> less than a year. A lot more money has to be devoted to biochar research in
>> a variety of agricultural applications. Once farmers understand the value
>> of biochar with respect to the specific plants or animals they grow, there
>> will be a rush to produce it. The high-grade heat produced in making
>> biochar can be used for cooking, and as a by-product of biochar production,
>> it becomes available to the household free-of-charge. To waste this heat,
>> as some propose to do, is incredibly short-sighted. The sale of biochar
>> should be able to cover not only the cost of the biomass from which it was
>> derived, but in time it should also cover the means to produce it. That is
>> why I push hard against those who want to use biochar as a fuel.
>>
>> Let us suppose that a gasifier costs $50 US dollars. Let us suppose that
>> a household produces one kg of biochar per day at a value of only $0.20 US
>> per kg. This represents an income of about $6.00 US dollars per month. In
>> less than a year the cost of the gasifier is covered.
>>
>> Here in Vietnam LPG sells for about $22 US dollars per bottle. Some
>> households consume up to two bottles of LPG each month. This works out to a
>> monthly fuel cost of $44 US dollars. This reliance on fossil fuels is
>> killing and has to stop.
>>
>> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/22013094/Paper/Presentations/Gasification.ppsx
>>
>> Thanks.
>> Paul
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 12:05 AM, Kevin wrote:
>>
>>> **
>>> Dear Ron
>>>
>>> Thanks for your very interesting report to date on "The Big Event."
>>>
>>> I think that one thing that could be very helpful is a Graph showing "
>>> Stove Price" versus "Potential Customers." Clearly, if a person is earning
>>> say $1 per day, and the stove cost $70, this would be equivalent to 70 days
>>> income. Here in Canada, where the minimum wage is $10 per hour, or $80 per
>>> day, a stove costing 70 days income would cost $5,600.
>>>
>>> Or, to look at it from the other direction, "What price would a stove
>>> have to sell for, so that 90% of the World's Population could afford to buy
>>> it"
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> Kevin
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> *From:* rongretlarson at comcast.net
>>> *To:* Discussion of biomass ;biochar
>>> *Cc:* Priyadarshini Karve ;,"paul anderson; Crispin
>>> Pemberton-Pigott ;Ruben at ace.co.ls ;
>>> adrian at rocketworks.org ;sonta at emerging.se
>>> *Sent:* Monday, March 18, 2013 11:19 AM
>>> *Subject:* [biochar] First report from Phnom Penh
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi to two lists (with 6 ccs)
>>>
>>> 1. This written at end of "first" day of conference. Actually the
>>> official first GACC day is tomorrow, but today was also the second day of
>>> pre-conference activities.. List members active on these two lists, here
>>> (and shown on the "to" list), who I hope will add more are Priya Karve,
>>> Paul Anderson and Crispin Pemberton-Piggott. I missed the first day -
>>> Sunday - returning from Siem Reap - home of Angkor Wat. This is
>>> definitely the most impressive world heritage site I have seen or could
>>> imagine. Uniformly impressed by the Cambodian people.
>>>
>>> 2. My overall impression is that very few attendees know much about
>>> biochar nor char-making stoves. Of course most everyone knows something
>>> about stoves - although I would guess that fewer than half have been
>>> involved for more than a year or t wo Heard tonight that there are 650
>>> registrants. Great conference facilities; no conference registration fee
>>> and fair number of freebie meals, coffee-break treats etc.
>>>
>>>
>>> 3. My first surprise char-making stove encounter was with Sonta Kauti,
>>> a Zambian with "Emerging Cooking Solutions" - whose stove can be seen at
>>> www.emerging.se. I have not yet seen the actual stove, nor yet know
>>> its pricing - but plan more talks with Sonta
>>>
>>> 4. Next was a short encounter with Ruben Walker of "African Clean
>>> Energy" (see http://www.ace.co.ls/), now manufacturing in Lesotho the
>>> "Philips" fan stove developed by Paul van der Sluis (PvdS). This has been
>>> identified as having the best performance characteristics so far tested.
>>> This was my first chance to hold one - and it looks exceptionally well
>>> made. A surprise was the set of 10 or 12 (?) flat ceramic liner pieces for
>>> the interior (maybe 1 cm thick??).&nb sp; Presumably long life time - being
>>> non-metal. Ruben said one could hold the outside of the stove after an
>>> hour of cooking -possible because there are four concentric metal
>>> cylinders (three concentric air gaps). This stove is not char making -
>>> but I remember hearing that PvdS regularly operates it as a
>>> charcoal-maker. Cost in neighborhood of $70.
>>>
>>>
>>> 5. Later, at this evening's reception, Mr. Adrian Padt of "Rocket
>>> Works" introduced himself (see http://www.rocketworks.org/ -
>>> including photo of Adrian). This is the stove with the interesting heavy
>>> wire mesh exterior that we discussed a few months ago - also can be held.
>>> This also looked exceptionally well made and rugged. Cost in the
>>> neighborhood of $50. In addition to the version seen at the site, they
>>> are now adding a door to better control excess air.
>>>
>>> 6. I attended a day-long session put on by the World B ank and the
>>> Asian Development Bank.- the emphasis was on country organizations in this
>>> region. Crispin was on what I thought the best panel - on testing, etc.
>>> This is to hope that Priya, Paul, and Crispin (and anyone else from these
>>> lists here in Phnom Penh) will also add their early summary thoughts.
>>>
>>>
>>> Any questions I/we can try to answer?
>>>
>>> Ron
>>>
>>> __._,_.___
>>> Reply via web post Reply
>>> to sender
>>> Reply
>>> to group
>>> Start
>>> a New Topic Messages
>>> in this topic(1)
>>> Recent Activity:
>>>
>>> - New Members
>>> 2
>>>
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>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Paul A. Olivier PhD
>> 26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong
>> Dalat
>> Vietnam
>>
>> Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
>> Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
>> Skype address: Xpolivier
>> http://www.esrla.com/
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Stoves mailing list
>>
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
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>>
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
>> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Stoves mailing list
>>
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
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>>
>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
>> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Paul A. Olivier PhD
> 26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong
> Dalat
> Vietnam
>
> Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
> Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
> Skype address: Xpolivier
> http://www.esrla.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>
>
>
--
***
Dr. A.D. Karve
Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)
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Message: 4
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 01:40:38 +0000
From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott"
To: "Stoves"
Subject: Re: [Stoves] [biochar] First report from Phnom Penh
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain
Dear AD
This seems like a possible market for biochar made on-site. The need for a small additional amount per day is well suited to biomass cooking.
Interesting...
Crispin in Beijing where it is a lot cooler!
-----Original Message-----
From: Anand Karve
Sender: "Stoves"
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 06:23:42
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
Reply-To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
Subject: Re: [Stoves] [biochar] First report from Phnom Penh
_______________________________________________
Stoves mailing list
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to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
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for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
http://www.bioenergylists.org/
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 08:43:31 +0700
From: Paul Olivier
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
Subject: Re: [Stoves] [biochar] First report from Phnom Penh
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
A.D. Karve,
You suggest that the effect of biochar can be attributed to the fact that
it adds minerals to the soil. If this is the case, why does the simple
addition of minerals not produce the same effect as biochar? Some say that
the effect of biochar can be attributed to the fact that it raises soil pH.
If this is the case, why does the simple addition of lime not produce the
same effect as biochar? Others claim that the effect of biochar can be
attributed to the fact that it increases the water-holding capacity of the
soil. If this is the case, why does the simple addition of coir dust not
achieve the same effect. Still other claim that biochar provides a lot of
surface area to the sandy soils. If so, why does the simple addition of
clay not achieve the same effect? Others claim that biochar is highly
porous and that it provides an ideal habitat for soil microorganisms to
thrive in close proximity. If this is the case, then nothing else quite
matches the pore structure that biochar brings to the soil.
About 20 experiments experiments were carried out with the rice hull
biochar from my gasifier. Different vegetables were tested under different
growing conditions, and the results were astounding. Tests were even done
on cattle, and the results again were astounding.
You are surely moving in the right direction in trying to explain why
biochar has such a positive effect. One theory that I favor is that biochar
(due in part to the attributes listed above) promotes the growth of
arbuscular mycorrhizal fungi, their helper bacteria as well as free-living
diazotrophs. When these fungi and bacteria thrive, so does the host plant.
I suggest that you take a good look at this book:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/22013094/Biochar/Johannes%20Lehmann%2C%20Stephen%20Joseph-Biochar%20for%20environmental%20management_%20science%20and%20technology.pdf
Many thanks.
Paul
On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 7:53 AM, Anand Karve wrote:
> Dear Paul, Ron and others,
> I was instrumental in the development of an urban biogas plant, which
> does not use cattle dung but uses food waste as feedstock. One kg dry
> weight of starch, sugar, cellulose, protein or any other kind of human food
> produces about 1 kg biogas. My biogas plant could normally accept only
> 1gram (dry weight) food waste per litre capacity of digester. Our
> experiments in which the biogas digester was filled with charcoal made it
> possible to increase the quantity of food waste to three grams per litre,
> with three times as much biogas becoming available from the same
> plant. This worked for about three months and then the higher efficiency
> was no longer available. It is a common observation, that a biogas plant
> works better, if chemical fertilizers are added to the feedstock. I have
> been thinking about this and it appears to me that it was the minerals in
> the biochar, that were contributing to this phenomenon. After the organisms
> in the biogas plant had consumed the minerals, the higher efficiency was no
> longer available.
> The same phenomenon might be responsible for the higher yield in fields
> provided with biochar.
> Yours
> A.D.Karve
> On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 12:24 PM, Paul Olivier wrote:
>
>> Kevin,
>>
>> Thanks very much for your reflection. Toward the end, you raise the
>> interesting question: which is worth more, biochar as a fuel or biochar as
>> an agricultural product? Let me come down strongly in favor of biochar as
>> an agricultural product. At the end of the same presentation, I ask the
>> question: what is the value of biochar when cattle put on 25% more weight
>> than those in the control group, when enteric methane emissions from the
>> same cattle are reduced by 42%, when mustard greens grow at a rate 400%
>> faster than the control group, or when the same mustard greens have 40%
>> less fiber and 35% more protein? About 20 experiments were carried put with
>> rice hull biochar from my gasifiers, and all indicated much higher plant
>> and animal growth. How then do we put a value on biochar, when current
>> prices for biochar do not yet reflect this new reality? If we burn biochar,
>> all goes up in a puff of smoke. If we use biochar in agriculture, we use a
>> lot less feed and a lot less fertilizer for the same end result, and the
>> benefits stay with us a very long time.
>>
>> We stand in urgent need for a lot more biochar studies in a lot more
>> agricultural settings. What we are trying to do at the moment is to
>> understand why biochar has such a dramatic effect when used in agriculture.
>> Yes, we can point to its pore structure, to its surface area, to its cation
>> and anion exchange capacities, to its pH and to its water-holding capacity.
>> But these elements alone do not give a complete picture. Over 20 years ago,
>> Japanese scientists were pointing out how biochar promotes the growth of
>> abuscular mycorrhizal fungi. I have a strong suspicion that these
>> scientists were leading us in the right direction. So in some of the next
>> biochar studies that Dr. Preston will conduct, he will focus on how biochar
>> promotes the growth of AM fungi.
>>
>> Thanks.
>> Paul
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 11:57 AM, Kevin wrote:
>>
>>> **
>>> Dear Paul
>>>
>>> Thanks very much for your very interesting slide Presentation on your
>>> Stove, and the explanation of "Rice Hull Biochar and Fuel Gas
>>> Production.Economics."
>>>
>>> Basically, 1 kg of free rice hulls yields $US 0.24 worth of pyrolysis
>>> gas for heating and 350 grams of Rice Hull Biochar worth about $0.30 per
>>> kg, or say $ 0.10
>>>
>>> A typical Vietnamese Family would consume about 1 MT of Rice Hulls per
>>> year, producing pyrolysis gas for cooking, worth about $240, and 350 kG of
>>> Biochar worth about $100, total $350 per year in the value of cooking
>>> energy + biochar sales per year.
>>>
>>> If your #150 stove sold for $40, it could pay for itself in less than
>>> 1/2 year, with sales of biochar alone, the value of the pyrolysis gases for
>>> cooking would be the equivalent of about 1 bottle of LPG per month, ie, an
>>> additional $22 per month of "free money." If the use of the pyrolysis gas
>>> displaced the need to purchase 1 bottle of LPG per month, then total
>>> savings would be about $22 + $8 = $30 per month, and the stove would be
>>> paid for in less than 2 months. This indeed would be a very attractive
>>> money making investment for the family.
>>>
>>> The method of financing the stoves that you propose is very attractive
>>> to the Typical Family, where a Charcoal Merchant would supply the stove to
>>> the Family, and they would pay for the stove with the charcoal they
>>> produced.
>>>
>>> The above numbers indicate that, at $0.30 per kG, the char production
>>> sells for $300 per MT.. If this was the value of the char, when sold into
>>> the "Biochar market", what would be the value of the char when sold into
>>> the "Charcoal Fuel market"?, If the value of the char when sold into the
>>> "Biochar Market" was greater than its value when sold into the Charcoal
>>> Fuel Market, then it would get used as biochar, but if it had more value as
>>> Charcoal fuel, it would be advantageous to the Family to sell it into the
>>> fuel market.
>>>
>>> it looks like you have a very attractive Stove Project!
>>>
>>> Best wishes for every success!
>>>
>>> Kevin
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> *From:* Paul Olivier
>>> *To:* Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>>> *Cc:* biochar at yahoogroups.com ;adrian at rocketworks.org ;
>>> sonta at emerging.se ;Ruben at ace.co.ls ;Priyadarshini Karve
>>> *Sent:* Monday, March 18, 2013 9:08 PM
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Stoves] [biochar] First report from Phnom Penh
>>>
>>> Kevin,
>>>
>>> Biochar can have significant value even in poor countries. For example,
>>> here in Dalat rice hull biochar is used extensively as a soil amendment.
>>> If a poor household can produce one kg of biochar per day and sell it at a
>>> fair market price, this will cover the cost of the means to produce it in
>>> less than a year. A lot more money has to be devoted to biochar research in
>>> a variety of agricultural applications. Once farmers understand the value
>>> of biochar with respect to the specific plants or animals they grow, there
>>> will be a rush to produce it. The high-grade heat produced in making
>>> biochar can be used for cooking, and as a by-product of biochar production,
>>> it becomes available to the household free-of-charge. To waste this heat,
>>> as some propose to do, is incredibly short-sighted. The sale of biochar
>>> should be able to cover not only the cost of the biomass from which it was
>>> derived, but in time it should also cover the means to produce it. That is
>>> why I push hard against those who want to use biochar as a fuel.
>>>
>>> Let us suppose that a gasifier costs $50 US dollars. Let us suppose that
>>> a household produces one kg of biochar per day at a value of only $0.20 US
>>> per kg. This represents an income of about $6.00 US dollars per month. In
>>> less than a year the cost of the gasifier is covered.
>>>
>>> Here in Vietnam LPG sells for about $22 US dollars per bottle. Some
>>> households consume up to two bottles of LPG each month. This works out to a
>>> monthly fuel cost of $44 US dollars. This reliance on fossil fuels is
>>> killing and has to stop.
>>>
>>> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/22013094/Paper/Presentations/Gasification.ppsx
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>> Paul
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 12:05 AM, Kevin wrote:
>>>
>>>> **
>>>> Dear Ron
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your very interesting report to date on "The Big Event."
>>>>
>>>> I think that one thing that could be very helpful is a Graph showing "
>>>> Stove Price" versus "Potential Customers." Clearly, if a person is earning
>>>> say $1 per day, and the stove cost $70, this would be equivalent to 70 days
>>>> income. Here in Canada, where the minimum wage is $10 per hour, or $80 per
>>>> day, a stove costing 70 days income would cost $5,600.
>>>>
>>>> Or, to look at it from the other direction, "What price would a stove
>>>> have to sell for, so that 90% of the World's Population could afford to buy
>>>> it"
>>>>
>>>> Thanks!
>>>>
>>>> Kevin
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> *From:* rongretlarson at comcast.net
>>>> *To:* Discussion of biomass ;biochar
>>>> *Cc:* Priyadarshini Karve ;,"paul anderson; Crispin
>>>> Pemberton-Pigott ;Ruben at ace.co.ls ;
>>>> adrian at rocketworks.org ;sonta at emerging.se
>>>> *Sent:* Monday, March 18, 2013 11:19 AM
>>>> *Subject:* [biochar] First report from Phnom Penh
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi to two lists (with 6 ccs)
>>>>
>>>> 1. This written at end of "first" day of conference. Actually the
>>>> official first GACC day is tomorrow, but today was also the second day of
>>>> pre-conference activities.. List members active on these two lists, here
>>>> (and shown on the "to" list), who I hope will add more are Priya Karve,
>>>> Paul Anderson and Crispin Pemberton-Piggott. I missed the first day -
>>>> Sunday - returning from Siem Reap - home of Angkor Wat. This is
>>>> definitely the most impressive world heritage site I have seen or could
>>>> imagine. Uniformly impressed by the Cambodian people.
>>>>
>>>> 2. My overall impression is that very few attendees know much about
>>>> biochar nor char-making stoves. Of course most everyone knows something
>>>> about stoves - although I would guess that fewer than half have been
>>>> involved for more than a year or t wo Heard tonight that there are 650
>>>> registrants. Great conference facilities; no conference registration fee
>>>> and fair number of freebie meals, coffee-break treats etc.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 3. My first surprise char-making stove encounter was with Sonta
>>>> Kauti, a Zambian with "Emerging Cooking Solutions" - whose stove can be
>>>> seen at www.emerging.se. I have not yet seen the actual stove, nor
>>>> yet know its pricing - but plan more talks with Sonta
>>>>
>>>> 4. Next was a short encounter with Ruben Walker of "African Clean
>>>> Energy" (see http://www.ace.co.ls/), now manufacturing in Lesotho the
>>>> "Philips" fan stove developed by Paul van der Sluis (PvdS). This has been
>>>> identified as having the best performance characteristics so far tested.
>>>> This was my first chance to hold one - and it looks exceptionally well
>>>> made. A surprise was the set of 10 or 12 (?) flat ceramic liner pieces for
>>>> the interior (maybe 1 cm thick??).&nb sp; Presumably long life time - being
>>>> non-metal. Ruben said one could hold the outside of the stove after an
>>>> hour of cooking -possible because there are four concentric metal
>>>> cylinders (three concentric air gaps). This stove is not char making -
>>>> but I remember hearing that PvdS regularly operates it as a
>>>> charcoal-maker. Cost in neighborhood of $70.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 5. Later, at this evening's reception, Mr. Adrian Padt of "Rocket
>>>> Works" introduced himself (see http://www.rocketworks.org/ -
>>>> including photo of Adrian). This is the stove with the interesting heavy
>>>> wire mesh exterior that we discussed a few months ago - also can be held.
>>>> This also looked exceptionally well made and rugged. Cost in the
>>>> neighborhood of $50. In addition to the version seen at the site, they
>>>> are now adding a door to better control excess air.
>>>>
>>>> 6. I attended a day-long session put on by the World B ank and the
>>>> Asian Development Bank.- the emphasis was on country organizations in this
>>>> region. Crispin was on what I thought the best panel - on testing, etc.
>>>> This is to hope that Priya, Paul, and Crispin (and anyone else from these
>>>> lists here in Phnom Penh) will also add their early summary thoughts.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Any questions I/we can try to answer?
>>>>
>>>> Ron
>>>>
>>>> __._,_.___
>>>> Reply via web post Reply
>>>> to sender
>>>> Reply
>>>> to group
>>>> Start
>>>> a New Topic Messages
>>>> in this topic(1)
>>>> Recent Activity:
>>>>
>>>> - New Members
>>>> 2
>>>>
>>>> Visit Your Group
>>>> [image: Yahoo! Groups]
>>>> Switch to: Text-Only,
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>>>> Unsubscribe ? Terms
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>>>>
>>>> .
>>>>
>>>> __,_._,___
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Stoves mailing list
>>>>
>>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>>>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>>
>>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>>>
>>>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>>
>>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
>>>> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Paul A. Olivier PhD
>>> 26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong
>>> Dalat
>>> Vietnam
>>>
>>> Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
>>> Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
>>> Skype address: Xpolivier
>>> http://www.esrla.com/
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Stoves mailing list
>>>
>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>
>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>>
>>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>
>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
>>> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Stoves mailing list
>>>
>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>
>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>>
>>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>
>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
>>> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Paul A. Olivier PhD
>> 26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong
>> Dalat
>> Vietnam
>>
>> Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
>> Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
>> Skype address: Xpolivier
>> http://www.esrla.com/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Stoves mailing list
>>
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
>> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> ***
> Dr. A.D. Karve
> Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>
>
>
--
Paul A. Olivier PhD
26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong
Dalat
Vietnam
Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
Skype address: Xpolivier
http://www.esrla.com/
-------------- next part --------------
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------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 22:33:03 -0400
From: Alex English
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
Subject: Re: [Stoves] [biochar] First report from Phnom Penh
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Dear Anand,
What was the particle size of the char that you added to achieve this
effect? Have you tried different sizes?
Thanks,
Alex
On 21/03/2013 8:53 PM, Anand Karve wrote:
> Dear Paul, Ron and others,
> I was instrumental in the development of an urban biogas plant, which
> does not use cattle dung but uses food waste as feedstock. One kg dry
> weight of starch, sugar, cellulose, protein or any other kind of human
> food produces about 1 kg biogas. My biogas plant could normally accept
> only 1gram (dry weight) food waste per litre capacity of
> digester. Our experiments in which the biogas digester was filled
> with charcoal made it possible to increase the quantity of food waste
> to three grams per litre, with three times as much biogas becoming
> available from the same plant. This worked for about three months and
> then the higher efficiency was no longer available. It is a common
> observation, that a biogas plant works better, if chemical fertilizers
> are added to the feedstock. I have been thinking about this and it
> appears to me that it was the minerals in the biochar, that were
> contributing to this phenomenon. After the organisms in the biogas
> plant had consumed the minerals, the higher efficiency was no longer
> available.
> The same phenomenon might be responsible for the higher yield in
> fields provided with biochar.
> Yours
> A.D.Karve
> O
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 09:57:44 +0700
From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott"
To: "'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'"
Subject: Re: [Stoves] [biochar] First report from Phnom Penh
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain;charset="us-ascii"
Dear AD
I too have a question: did the addition of 3g/litre still yield 3kg of gas
per kg of input? That leads to the question, was the gas production rate
dropping so you reduced the feed loading from 3 g to 2 g then 1 g, or was
the gas production rate dropping?
Thanks
Crispin
Dear Anand,
What was the particle size of the char that you added to achieve this
effect? Have you tried different sizes?
Thanks,
Alex
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 00:07:32 -0300
From: "Kevin"
To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves"
Subject: Re: [Stoves] [biochar] First report from Phnom Penh
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
Dear Anand
The impressive yield improvement may have been due to neither the minerals nor the biochar, but simply as a result of pH adjustment by the ash content of the biochar. As I recall, the original "Control Soil" used in the Preston Report had a pH in the range of about 4.5, while the "biochar soil" with the maximum yield had a pH in the range of 7-7.5.
Best wishes,
Kevin
----- Original Message -----
From: Anand Karve
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 9:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Stoves] [biochar] First report from Phnom Penh
Dear Paul, Ron and others,
I was instrumental in the development of an urban biogas plant, which does not use cattle dung but uses food waste as feedstock. One kg dry weight of starch, sugar, cellulose, protein or any other kind of human food produces about 1 kg biogas. My biogas plant could normally accept only 1gram (dry weight) food waste per litre capacity of digester. Our experiments in which the biogas digester was filled with charcoal made it possible to increase the quantity of food waste to three grams per litre, with three times as much biogas becoming available from the same plant. This worked for about three months and then the higher efficiency was no longer available. It is a common observation, that a biogas plant works better, if chemical fertilizers are added to the feedstock. I have been thinking about this and it appears to me that it was the minerals in the biochar, that were contributing to this phenomenon. After the organisms in the biogas plant had consumed the minerals, the higher efficiency was no longer available.
The same phenomenon might be responsible for the higher yield in fields provided with biochar.
Yours
A.D.Karve
On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 12:24 PM, Paul Olivier wrote:
Kevin,
Thanks very much for your reflection. Toward the end, you raise the interesting question: which is worth more, biochar as a fuel or biochar as an agricultural product? Let me come down strongly in favor of biochar as an agricultural product. At the end of the same presentation, I ask the question: what is the value of biochar when cattle put on 25% more weight than those in the control group, when enteric methane emissions from the same cattle are reduced by 42%, when mustard greens grow at a rate 400% faster than the control group, or when the same mustard greens have 40% less fiber and 35% more protein? About 20 experiments were carried put with rice hull biochar from my gasifiers, and all indicated much higher plant and animal growth. How then do we put a value on biochar, when current prices for biochar do not yet reflect this new reality? If we burn biochar, all goes up in a puff of smoke. If we use biochar in agriculture, we use a lot less feed and a lot less fertilizer for the same end result, and the benefits stay with us a very long time.
We stand in urgent need for a lot more biochar studies in a lot more agricultural settings. What we are trying to do at the moment is to understand why biochar has such a dramatic effect when used in agriculture. Yes, we can point to its pore structure, to its surface area, to its cation and anion exchange capacities, to its pH and to its water-holding capacity. But these elements alone do not give a complete picture. Over 20 years ago, Japanese scientists were pointing out how biochar promotes the growth of abuscular mycorrhizal fungi. I have a strong suspicion that these scientists were leading us in the right direction. So in some of the next biochar studies that Dr. Preston will conduct, he will focus on how biochar promotes the growth of AM fungi.
Thanks.
Paul
On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 11:57 AM, Kevin wrote:
Dear Paul
Thanks very much for your very interesting slide Presentation on your Stove, and the explanation of "Rice Hull Biochar and Fuel Gas Production.Economics."
Basically, 1 kg of free rice hulls yields $US 0.24 worth of pyrolysis gas for heating and 350 grams of Rice Hull Biochar worth about $0.30 per kg, or say $ 0.10
A typical Vietnamese Family would consume about 1 MT of Rice Hulls per year, producing pyrolysis gas for cooking, worth about $240, and 350 kG of Biochar worth about $100, total $350 per year in the value of cooking energy + biochar sales per year.
If your #150 stove sold for $40, it could pay for itself in less than 1/2 year, with sales of biochar alone, the value of the pyrolysis gases for cooking would be the equivalent of about 1 bottle of LPG per month, ie, an additional $22 per month of "free money." If the use of the pyrolysis gas displaced the need to purchase 1 bottle of LPG per month, then total savings would be about $22 + $8 = $30 per month, and the stove would be paid for in less than 2 months. This indeed would be a very attractive money making investment for the family.
The method of financing the stoves that you propose is very attractive to the Typical Family, where a Charcoal Merchant would supply the stove to the Family, and they would pay for the stove with the charcoal they produced.
The above numbers indicate that, at $0.30 per kG, the char production sells for $300 per MT.. If this was the value of the char, when sold into the "Biochar market", what would be the value of the char when sold into the "Charcoal Fuel market"?, If the value of the char when sold into the "Biochar Market" was greater than its value when sold into the Charcoal Fuel Market, then it would get used as biochar, but if it had more value as Charcoal fuel, it would be advantageous to the Family to sell it into the fuel market.
it looks like you have a very attractive Stove Project!
Best wishes for every success!
Kevin
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Olivier
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
Cc: biochar at yahoogroups.com ;adrian at rocketworks.org ;sonta at emerging.se ;Ruben at ace.co.ls ;Priyadarshini Karve
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 9:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Stoves] [biochar] First report from Phnom Penh
Kevin,
Biochar can have significant value even in poor countries. For example, here in Dalat rice hull biochar is used extensively as a soil amendment. If a poor household can produce one kg of biochar per day and sell it at a fair market price, this will cover the cost of the means to produce it in less than a year. A lot more money has to be devoted to biochar research in a variety of agricultural applications. Once farmers understand the value of biochar with respect to the specific plants or animals they grow, there will be a rush to produce it. The high-grade heat produced in making biochar can be used for cooking, and as a by-product of biochar production, it becomes available to the household free-of-charge. To waste this heat, as some propose to do, is incredibly short-sighted. The sale of biochar should be able to cover not only the cost of the biomass from which it was derived, but in time it should also cover the means to produce it. That is why I push hard against those who want to use biochar as a fuel.
Let us suppose that a gasifier costs $50 US dollars. Let us suppose that a household produces one kg of biochar per day at a value of only $0.20 US per kg. This represents an income of about $6.00 US dollars per month. In less than a year the cost of the gasifier is covered.
Here in Vietnam LPG sells for about $22 US dollars per bottle. Some households consume up to two bottles of LPG each month. This works out to a monthly fuel cost of $44 US dollars. This reliance on fossil fuels is killing and has to stop.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/22013094/Paper/Presentations/Gasification.ppsx
Thanks.
Paul
On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 12:05 AM, Kevin wrote:
Dear Ron
Thanks for your very interesting report to date on "The Big Event."
I think that one thing that could be very helpful is a Graph showing " Stove Price" versus "Potential Customers." Clearly, if a person is earning say $1 per day, and the stove cost $70, this would be equivalent to 70 days income. Here in Canada, where the minimum wage is $10 per hour, or $80 per day, a stove costing 70 days income would cost $5,600.
Or, to look at it from the other direction, "What price would a stove have to sell for, so that 90% of the World's Population could afford to buy it"
Thanks!
Kevin
----- Original Message -----
From: rongretlarson at comcast.net
To: Discussion of biomass ;biochar
Cc: Priyadarshini Karve ;,"paul anderson ;Crispin Pemberton-Pigott ;Ruben at ace.co.ls ;adrian at rocketworks.org ;sonta at emerging.se
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 11:19 AM
Subject: [biochar] First report from Phnom Penh
Hi to two lists (with 6 ccs)
1. This written at end of "first" day of conference. Actually the official first GACC day is tomorrow, but today was also the second day of pre-conference activities.. List members active on these two lists, here (and shown on the "to" list), who I hope will add more are Priya Karve, Paul Anderson and Crispin Pemberton-Piggott. I missed the first day - Sunday - returning from Siem Reap - home of Angkor Wat. This is definitely the most impressive world heritage site I have seen or could imagine. Uniformly impressed by the Cambodian people.
2. My overall impression is that very few attendees know much about biochar nor char-making stoves. Of course most everyone knows something about stoves - although I would guess that fewer than half have been involved for more than a year or t wo Heard tonight that there are 650 registrants. Great conference facilities; no conference registration fee and fair number of freebie meals, coffee-break treats etc.
3. My first surprise char-making stove encounter was with Sonta Kauti, a Zambian with "Emerging Cooking Solutions" - whose stove can be seen at www.emerging.se. I have not yet seen the actual stove, nor yet know its pricing - but plan more talks with Sonta
4. Next was a short encounter with Ruben Walker of "African Clean Energy" (see http://www.ace.co.ls/), now manufacturing in Lesotho the "Philips" fan stove developed by Paul van der Sluis (PvdS). This has been identified as having the best performance characteristics so far tested. This was my first chance to hold one - and it looks exceptionally well made. A surprise was the set of 10 or 12 (?) flat ceramic liner pieces for the interior (maybe 1 cm thick??).&nb sp; Presumably long life time - being non-metal. Ruben said one could hold the outside of the stove after an hour of cooking -possible because there are four concentric metal cylinders (three concentric air gaps). This stove is not char making - but I remember hearing that PvdS regularly operates it as a charcoal-maker. Cost in neighborhood of $70.
5. Later, at this evening's reception, Mr. Adrian Padt of "Rocket Works" introduced himself (see http://www.rocketworks.org/ - including photo of Adrian). This is the stove with the interesting heavy wire mesh exterior that we discussed a few months ago - also can be held. This also looked exceptionally well made and rugged. Cost in the neighborhood of $50. In addition to the version seen at the site, they are now adding a door to better control excess air.
6. I attended a day-long session put on by the World B ank and the Asian Development Bank.- the emphasis was on country organizations in this region. Crispin was on what I thought the best panel - on testing, etc. This is to hope that Priya, Paul, and Crispin (and anyone else from these lists here in Phnom Penh) will also add their early summary thoughts.
Any questions I/we can try to answer?
Ron
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Dalat
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Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
Skype address: Xpolivier
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Paul A. Olivier PhD
26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong
Dalat
Vietnam
Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
Skype address: Xpolivier
http://www.esrla.com/
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Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)
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Message: 9
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 20:35:38 -0700
From: "Tom Miles"
To: "'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'"
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Second report from Phnom Penh
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Jed, Ron, Paul,
Many thanks for sending us these reports and pictures from the conference.
Please give my regards to Ms. Sununtar Setboonsarng whom I met at the
biochar conference in Kyoto in 2011.
Kind regards,
Tom
From: Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of
jed.building.bridges at gmail.com
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 11:08 AM
To: 'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'
Subject: [Stoves] Second report from Phnom Penh
HI All
This is Jed Guinto from the Philippines also at the GACC conference here at
Phnom Penh. Hi Ron... i did not meet you yet... but met Dean Still and
briefly Christa Rot. Im so happy to be here and finally meet all the
geniuses of the stove sector. I also had the chance to chat with Crispin
Pembertton Pigott and had a handful of advice and exchange of news.
Then i met people from GERES, the French NGO. The conversation with Iwan
Baskoro was very fruitful because he laid out the history of their efforts
in the Philippines, on which i may build upon.
I joined the session on the Stoves Health and Sanitation. The diiscussion
went deep into behavior change and bio char among others. The presentation
of Mr. Larry Sthreshley from his work in Congo talked about the connection
of cookstoves into food security, and that is through biochar.
The call for biochar again resounded during the breakout group session for
SouthEast Asia. The moderator, Ms. Sununtar Stboonsarng of ADB, at the end
of the session made the remark... suggesting that the GACC put particular
focus on bio char. It is because it would be the link of the stoves to
health, sanitation and water.
I had a grand time over the exhibits.... the Onil Stove, the
EnviroFit.....the Solar cookers and ovens and also had a nice photo with
Dean Still.. He is a big man indeed... in his deeds and in his size. It
would have been nice to see an exhibit by the BioLite, but it was not there
.
On Thursday, i will join the site visit to the sugar processing station
where they use solar power. I would like to follow a hybrid model of a stove
and solar power coming together.
Hope to meet more of you in the conference.
Jed
2013/3/20
Hi again all (adding Dean Still)
1. Very good opening plenary with lead off by UC Berkeley Prof Kirk Smith -
the most well known world expert in stove health topics (Household Air
Pollution (HAP) now #4 killer - about 4 million per year. Emphasized
difficulty of making changes. He was followed by U Illinois professor Tami
Bond, who was the main speaker at the last Ethos conference and who has also
done a lot of stove testing.
2. I then attended a breakout session chaired by Christa Roth of GIZ. She
also was at last ETHOS meeting and has great summary book on char-making and
gasifier stoves. Great talk by Paul Means of Burn Lab (Seattle) on the
(mostly transportation) reasons NOT to work with charcoal made in remote
areas.
3. I missed the next plenary on major country GACC programs, but attended
a well-done breakout survey of stove activities in China.
Here Dean Still raved about the capabilities of the Chinese stove community.
In particular the Stove Tec main Chinese partner was there (Mr. Chen or
Shen). Apparently there is little activity with char-making stoves (I will
try to get Dean's view on that). But at the same Chinese meeting today, I
met several groups that are working in China on char-making stoves. GACC
might have a list of Chinese stove manufacturers.
Talked with several Chinese forestry experts (and China is doing quite
well in this area)..
4. Tonight was the main banquet - during most of which we were entertained
by 25-30 young Cambodian folk dancers/musicians..
5. Afterwards, I visited the small display area of stoves - maybe 20 in
all and maybe 5 were char making. Gustavo Pena of El Salvador showed me a
char-making stove of his own design with lots of "attachments" (including
an oven) [couldn't find a website]. Also saw several stoves being sold in
China by Dylan Maxwell of Novotera and Planetstove. More coming on this.
Again I hope others will jump in.
Ron
_____
From: rongretlarson at comcast.net
To: "Discussion of biomass" , "biochar"
Cc: "Priyadarshini Karve" , ",\"paul anderson"
, "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" ,
Ruben at ace.co.ls, adrian at rocketworks.org, sonta at emerging.se
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 8:19:14 AM
Subject: First report from Phnom Penh
Hi to two lists (with 6 ccs)
1. This written at end of "first" day of conference. Actually the
official first GACC day is tomorrow, but today was also the second day of
pre-conference activities.. List members active on these two lists, here
(and shown on the "to" list), who I hope will add more are Priya Karve, Paul
Anderson and Crispin Pemberton-Piggott. I missed the first day - Sunday -
returning from Siem Reap - home of Angkor Wat. This is definitely the
most impressive world heritage site I have seen or could imagine. Uniformly
impressed by the Cambodian people.
2. My overall impression is that very few attendees know much about
biochar nor char-making stoves. Of course most everyone knows something
about stoves - although I would guess that fewer than half have been
involved for more than a year or two Heard tonight that there are 650
registrants. Great conference facilities; no conference registration fee
and fair number of freebie meals, coffee-break treats etc.
3. My first surprise char-making stove encounter was with Sonta Kauti, a
Zambian with "Emerging Cooking Solutions" - whose stove can be seen at
www.emerging.se. I have not yet seen the actual stove, nor yet know its
pricing - but plan more talks with Sonta
4. Next was a short encounter with Ruben Walker of "African Clean Energy"
(see http://www.ace.co.ls/), now manufacturing in Lesotho the "Philips" fan
stove developed by Paul van der Sluis (PvdS). This has been identified as
having the best performance characteristics so far tested. This was my
first chance to hold one - and it looks exceptionally well made. A surprise
was the set of 10 or 12 (?) flat ceramic liner pieces for the interior
(maybe 1 cm thick??). Presumably long life time - being non-metal. Ruben
said one could hold the outside of the stove after an hour of cooking
-possible because there are four concentric metal cylinders (three
concentric air gaps). This stove is not char making - but I remember
hearing that PvdS regularly operates it as a charcoal-maker. Cost in
neighborhood of $70.
5. Later, at this evening's reception, Mr. Adrian Padt of "Rocket Works"
introduced himself (see http://www.rocketworks.org/ - including photo of
Adrian). This is the stove with the interesting heavy wire mesh exterior
that we discussed a few months ago - also can be held. This also looked
exceptionally well made and rugged. Cost in the neighborhood of $50. In
addition to the version seen at the site, they are now adding a door to
better control excess air.
6. I attended a day-long session put on by the World Bank and the Asian
Development Bank.- the emphasis was on country organizations in this region.
Crispin was on what I thought the best panel - on testing, etc. This is to
hope that Priya, Paul, and Crispin (and anyone else from these lists here
in Phnom Penh) will also add their early summary thoughts.
Any questions I/we can try to answer?
Ron
_______________________________________________
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.org
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Message: 10
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 07:24:36 +0000 (UTC)
From: rongretlarson at comcast.net
To: biochar at yahoogroups.com
Cc: Paul at burndesignlab.com, adrian at rocketworks.org, sonta at emerging.se,
dylanmontreal at gmail.com, Ruben at ace.co.ls, deanstll at gmail.com,
Priyadarshini Karve ,Discussion of biomass
cooking stoves
Subject: [Stoves] Fifth and (semi?) final report from Phnom Penh (both
stoves and biochar focus)
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Hi to same lists with ccs
1. From about 7:30 to 9:00 about a dozen of us (4-5 new) met for the second and final "GACC-TLUD-Biochar" group meeting. The most exciting new contacts for most of us were possibly
a. Ranyee from the GACC staff - responsible for technologies at GACC. She specifically asked about cook acceptance of TLUD and other char-making stoves wth numerous positive rationales given..
b. Mr. Lawrence Sthreshley of IMA World Health - describing hs (?) choice of a biochar system in the DR Congo - with major funding from the British government. Biochar chosen because of improved health with small garden plot productivity improvement. More detail coming hopefully soon.
2. Breakout sessions from 10:45 to 12:00 (cutoff for group photo). I got limited to 10 minutes, so will give more detail later on what I wanted to get across. I think the existing GACC test reports are BADLY screwing char-making stoves.
3. 12:00 to about 1:30 Photo and final (again free!!) great final lunch with few thank you's to staff .
Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: rongretlarson at comcast.net
To: biochar at yahoogroups.com
Cc: Ruben at ace.co.ls, sonta at emerging.se, dylanmontreal at gmail.com, adrian at rocketworks.org, Paul at burndesignlab.com, deanstll at gmail.com, "Priyadarshini Karve" , "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves"
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 7:29:12 AM
Subject: [biochar] Fourth report from Phnom Penh (both stoves and biochar focus)
Hi all
This was a truncated day - but started early.
1. Breakfast for second time with two from Ethiopia (where I have spent considerable time)
2. 8:00 - 9:30 in breakout session on stoves in China. Tami Bond was first speaker - somewhat repeating an earlier plenary alkon black carbon - with emphasis this time on climate and China. Other speakers emphasizing more health aspect. I really liked last speaker (Yeoguong Zhou of China Agricultural University) who noted 11 ways that errors (some quite significant) can come into stove testing.
3. 10- 5:00 (in our case till 2:00 - allowing some catchup time) tours to 4-5 different places. We went in four 12-person vans to two somewhat coupled places. The first making charcoal briquettes; the second a stove testing facility (one of 6-8 set up by GACC around the world, using approaches (and hardware) developed by Aprovecho). The latter still operated by a French NGO called GERES.. The first is now private but is an offshoot of GERES work.
4. From about 4:30 to 6:00 (probably went longer), we wandered around a parking lot with about 15-20 different stove operations. Two were solar, a few fossil fuel (alcohol, propane or LPG) and the rest about evenly split between "rockets" and T-LUDs. This is a much larger showing- for TLUDS than represented in the talks and standards/testing,etc. I took quite a few photos. One surprise was a thermoelectric generator unit part of a TLUD with a $100 price tag.- one designed for car batteries (14.5 volts).
5. 6:00 to 7:30 - a reception (free beer, wine and peanuts) to listen to an industry sales pitch for LPG. Cleverly done; bullding mainly on the health benefits of LPG. Attendance relatively low (40?).
7. Tomorrow AM another biochar subgroup meeting (700 to 8:00 AM)
Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: rongretlarson at comcast.net
To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves"
Cc: Ruben at ace.co.ls, sonta at emerging.se, dylanmontreal at gmail.com, adrian at rocketworks.org, Paul at burndesignlab.com, deanstll at gmail.com, "Priyadarshini Karve" , "biochar"
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 2:36:48 AM
Subject: [biochar] Third report from Phnom Penh (both stoves and biochar focus)
Hi again
This report being written on the fourth day (Thursday) about the third day (Wednesday).
1. Eighteen of us who were interested in biochar met from 7 to 8:30. About half new to biochar and TLUDs. Anyone interested in these names please send me a note.
2. Plenary from 8:30 to 10:00 mostly involved government officials - especially interesting was hearing from persons representing Philips and GIZ.
3. 10:30 to 12:00 I missed - my having computer problems. Anyone else able to report?
4. 12:30 to 2:00 A lunch featuring 4 world famous chefs - seving as "ambassadors" for GACC. Lead chef was Jose Andres from US - very inspirational speaker.- a good choice (like Julia Roberts - who has not been present). This s a good place to say the GACC organizers have done an excellent job with conference details.
5. 2:00 to 3:30 Out of usual 5 choices, I went to one on the standards being developed through (mainly) ISO and (US) ANSI. Mostly a description of the process, which is just getting underway. Lots on this at GACC site.. Briefly also went to session where Priya Karve was speaking on technology selection. I think all slide presentations will soon be up on GACC site. Full agenda is there now.
6. 4:00 to 5:30 - I chose to go to session on forthcoming M&E (Monitoring and Evaluation). Good talks by a) Christoph Messiinger of GIZ (Germain doing best work in the stove area for many years) and Michael Sage from (US) CDC on the very beginning efforts to develop a GACC methodology. This is to fill out the overall goal of 100 million new improved stoves by 2020. Kenya's goal is 7 million.
7. 6:30 to 8:00 (and much later) An awards banquet and poster session. I was surprised by the large number of posters. Not sure how - but I think GACC paid for all and they were all easy to read. Many were stove suppliers. Priya Karve had one for Samuchit (not ARTI). The key award was given to Prof. Kirk Smith. He noted that he had close call 43 (?) years ago in leaving Phnom Penh as Pol Pot terror was just beginning. Cambodia now much different. Everyone very friendly.
I had interesting long discussion with a developer from LBL with a solid oxide fuel cell msutable to be put directly in stove flame (need 600-900 oC). Cost expected to be about $15 to $20 for about 5 watts. Company name Point Source Power (www.pointsourcepower.com) represented by Pres./CEO Craig Jacobson of Alameda, CA. On the market soon - saw several products.(cell phone rechargers, flashlights, etc). The key disposable parts are compressed charcoal "chips" of about 2 sq in size.
End of day 3 report.
----- Original Message -----
From: rongretlarson at comcast.net
To: "Discussion of biomass" , "biochar"
Cc: Ruben at ace.co.ls, sonta at emerging.se, dylanmontreal at gmail.com, adrian at rocketworks.org, Paul at burndesignlab.com, deanstll at gmail.com, "Priyadarshini Karve"
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 10:39:12 AM
Subject: [Stoves] Second report from Phnom Penh
Hi again all (adding Dean Still)
1. Very good opening plenary with lead off by UC Berkeley Prof Kirk Smith - the most well known world expert in stove health topics (Household Air Pollution (HAP) now #4 killer - about 4 million per year. Emphasized difficulty of making changes. He was followed by U Illinois professor Tami Bond, who was the main speaker at the last Ethos conference and who has also done a lot of stove testing.
2. I then attended a breakout session chaired by Christa Roth of GIZ. She also was at last ETHOS meeting and has great summary book on char-making and gasifier stoves. Great talk by Paul Means of Burn Lab (Seattle) on the (mostly transportation) reasons NOT to work with charcoal made in remote areas.
3. I missed the next plenary on major country GACC programs, but attended a well-done breakout survey of stove activities in China.
Here Dean Still raved about the capabilities of the Chinese stove community. In particular the Stove Tec main Chinese partner was there (Mr. Chen or Shen). Apparently there is little activity with char-making stoves (I will try to get Dean's view on that). But at the same Chinese meeting today, I met several groups that are working in China on char-making stoves. GACC might have a list of Chinese stove manufacturers.
Talked with several Chinese forestry experts (and China is doing quite well in this area)..
4. Tonight was the main banquet - during most of which we were entertained by 25-30 young Cambodian folk dancers/musicians..
5. Afterwards, I visited the small display area of stoves - maybe 20 in all and maybe 5 were char making. Gustavo Pena of El Salvador showed me a char-making stove of his own design with lots of "attachments" (including an oven) [couldn't find a website]. Also saw several stoves being sold in China by Dylan Maxwell of Novotera and Planetstove. More coming on this.
Again I hope others will jump in.
Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: rongretlarson at comcast.net
To: "Discussion of biomass" , "biochar"
Cc: "Priyadarshini Karve" , ",\"paul anderson" , "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" , Ruben at ace.co.ls, adrian at rocketworks.org, sonta at emerging.se
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 8:19:14 AM
Subject: First report from Phnom Penh
Hi to two lists (with 6 ccs)
1. This written at end of "first" day of conference. Actually the official first GACC day is tomorrow, but today was also the second day of pre-conference activities.. List members active on these two lists, here (and shown on the "to" list), who I hope will add more are Priya Karve, Paul Anderson and Crispin Pemberton-Piggott. I missed the first day - Sunday - returning from Siem Reap - home of Angkor Wat. This is definitely the most impressive world heritage site I have seen or could imagine. Uniformly impressed by the Cambodian people.
2. My overall impression is that very few attendees know much about biochar nor char-making stoves. Of course most everyone knows something about stoves - although I would guess that fewer than half have been involved for more than a year or two Heard tonight that there are 650 registrants. Great conference facilities; no conference registration fee and fair number of freebie meals, coffee-break treats etc.
3. My first surprise char-making stove encounter was with Sonta Kauti, a Zambian with "Emerging Cooking Solutions" - whose stove can be seen at www.emerging.se. I have not yet seen the actual stove, nor yet know its pricing - but plan more talks with Sonta
4. Next was a short encounter with Ruben Walker of "African Clean Energy" (see http://www.ace.co.ls/), now manufacturing in Lesotho the "Philips" fan stove developed by Paul van der Sluis (PvdS). This has been identified as having the best performance characteristics so far tested. This was my first chance to hold one - and it looks exceptionally well made. A surprise was the set of 10 or 12 (?) flat ceramic liner pieces for the interior (maybe 1 cm thick??). Presumably long life time - being non-metal. Ruben said one could hold the outside of the stove after an hour of cooking -possible because there are four concentric metal cylinders (three concentric air gaps). This stove is not char making - but I remember hearing that PvdS regularly operates it as a charcoal-maker. Cost in neighborhood of $70.
5. Later, at this evening's reception, Mr. Adrian Padt of "Rocket Works" introduced himself (see http://www.rocketworks.org/ - including photo of Adrian). This is the stove with the interesting heavy wire mesh exterior that we discussed a few months ago - also can be held. This also looked exceptionally well made and rugged. Cost in the neighborhood of $50. In addition to the version seen at the site, they are now adding a door to better control excess air.
6. I attended a day-long session put on by the World Bank and the Asian Development Bank.- the emphasis was on country organizations in this region. Crispin was on what I thought the best panel - on testing, etc. This is to hope that Priya, Paul, and Crispin (and anyone else from these lists here in Phnom Penh) will also add their early summary thoughts.
Any questions I/we can try to answer?
Ron
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Message: 11
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 14:44:35 +0700
From: Paul Olivier
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
,Ron Larson
Subject: Re: [Stoves] [biochar] First report from Phnom Penh
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
Anand,
I cannot follow what Kevin is saying here at all.
Let us take a look at the biochar study with respect to mustard green and
other vegetables:
http://www.lrrd.org/public-lrrd/proofs/lrrd2501/chha25008.htm
Preston acknowledged in his Introduction the fact that biochar has an
impact on soil pH.
He hides nothing:
*Biochar is a fine-grained porous substance that resembles charcoal
produced by natural burning. However, biochar is produced by the combustion
of biomass under oxygen limited conditions at high temperatures (from 600
to 1000 ?C) in a gasifier. As most of the mineral matter in biomass is
composed of salts of K, Na and Ca, it has a strong alkaline reaction giving
rise to a pH of between 8 and 10 (Rodriguez et al 2009). Thus application
of biochar as a soil amender is especially appropriate in acid soils with a
low content of organic matter. Biochar is unlikely to have a major role as
a fertilizer but, because of its structure, it can be expected to increase
water-holding capacity, and be a good habitat for microbes and plant
nutrients*.
A bit further he explains:
*The soil used in the experiment showed improvements as reflected in
increased content of organic matter, nitrogen and pH as a result of the
addition of biochar.*
Let us look at the ideal pH for growing mustard greens:
http://www.heirloomseeds.com/sthrn-veg.htm
The pH for growing mustard greens varies between 5.5 and 7.5.
Some people suggest a pH between 6 and 7.
In any case, a number of 6 is still quite acceptable:
The starting pH of the soil in this experiment was 5.8.
Where did Kevin get this number of 4.5?
How did he come up with this number?
What motivated him to come up with this number!!!
If an acceptable pH for mustard greens is 6.0,
and if the starting pH in this experiment was 5.8,
how can Kevin be so sure that the entire positive effect of biochar can be
summarized only in terms of pH?
Also Kevin has made mention several time of the biochar study Dr. Preston
did with respect to cattle.
Let us take a look at this study:
http://www.lrrd.org/lrrd24/11/leng24199.htm
The study was conducted over a period of 98 days. The cattle fed biochar
gained 129 grams per day. The cattle without biochar gained 103 grams per
day. The difference between these two numbers is 26 grams (a little over
25%).
At the end of the study, the cattle with biochar gained 12.642 kgs, while
the cattle without biochar gained 10.094 kgs.
Preston did not claim that at the end of the study the cattle with biochar
were 25% heavier than the cattle without biochar. He simply said that
during this experiment the cattle with biochar put on 25% more weight than
the cattle without biochar. The key concept here is *live weight gain* - a
term used quite often in animal studies. This is what he reported: "*Live
weight gain was increased 25% by adding biochar to the diet DM..*" There is
absolutely nothing misleading about the manner in which he made such a
claim, and his claim was consistent with all of the data reported in the
paper.
Also I have no reason to doubt the numbers he reported with respect to
enteric methane reduction (reductions up to 41%). If the cow produces less
methane, one might expect that DM feed conversion would improve and that
the cow would put on more weight. These numbers with respect to methane
reduction are truly amazing.
In his paper Dr. Preston did not attempt to deceived or mislead.
His science is good science, and it is grounded in over 50 years working
with cattle.
Thanks.
Paul
On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Kevin wrote:
> **
> Dear Anand
>
> The impressive yield improvement may have been due to neither the minerals
> nor the biochar, but simply as a result of pH adjustment by the ash content
> of the biochar. As I recall, the original "Control Soil" used in the
> Preston Report had a pH in the range of about 4.5, while the "biochar soil"
> with the maximum yield had a pH in the range of 7-7.5.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Kevin
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Anand Karve
> *To:* Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 21, 2013 9:53 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Stoves] [biochar] First report from Phnom Penh
>
> Dear Paul, Ron and others,
> I was instrumental in the development of an urban biogas plant, which
> does not use cattle dung but uses food waste as feedstock. One kg dry
> weight of starch, sugar, cellulose, protein or any other kind of human food
> produces about 1 kg biogas. My biogas plant could normally accept only
> 1gram (dry weight) food waste per litre capacity of digester. Our
> experiments in which the biogas digester was filled with charcoal made it
> possible to increase the quantity of food waste to three grams per litre,
> with three times as much biogas becoming available from the same
> plant. This worked for about three months and then the higher efficiency
> was no longer available. It is a common observation, that a biogas plant
> works better, if chemical fertilizers are added to the feedstock. I have
> been thinking about this and it appears to me that it was the minerals in
> the biochar, that were contributing to this phenomenon. After the organisms
> in the biogas plant had consumed the minerals, the higher efficiency was no
> longer available.
> The same phenomenon might be responsible for the higher yield in fields
> provided with biochar.
> Yours
> A.D.Karve
> On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 12:24 PM, Paul Olivier wrote:
>
>> Kevin,
>>
>> Thanks very much for your reflection. Toward the end, you raise the
>> interesting question: which is worth more, biochar as a fuel or biochar as
>> an agricultural product? Let me come down strongly in favor of biochar as
>> an agricultural product. At the end of the same presentation, I ask the
>> question: what is the value of biochar when cattle put on 25% more weight
>> than those in the control group, when enteric methane emissions from the
>> same cattle are reduced by 42%, when mustard greens grow at a rate 400%
>> faster than the control group, or when the same mustard greens have 40%
>> less fiber and 35% more protein? About 20 experiments were carried put with
>> rice hull biochar from my gasifiers, and all indicated much higher plant
>> and animal growth. How then do we put a value on biochar, when current
>> prices for biochar do not yet reflect this new reality? If we burn biochar,
>> all goes up in a puff of smoke. If we use biochar in agriculture, we use a
>> lot less feed and a lot less fertilizer for the same end result, and the
>> benefits stay with us a very long time.
>>
>> We stand in urgent need for a lot more biochar studies in a lot more
>> agricultural settings. What we are trying to do at the moment is to
>> understand why biochar has such a dramatic effect when used in agriculture.
>> Yes, we can point to its pore structure, to its surface area, to its cation
>> and anion exchange capacities, to its pH and to its water-holding capacity.
>> But these elements alone do not give a complete picture. Over 20 years ago,
>> Japanese scientists were pointing out how biochar promotes the growth of
>> abuscular mycorrhizal fungi. I have a strong suspicion that these
>> scientists were leading us in the right direction. So in some of the next
>> biochar studies that Dr. Preston will conduct, he will focus on how biochar
>> promotes the growth of AM fungi.
>>
>> Thanks.
>> Paul
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 11:57 AM, Kevin wrote:
>>
>>> **
>>> Dear Paul
>>>
>>> Thanks very much for your very interesting slide Presentation on your
>>> Stove, and the explanation of "Rice Hull Biochar and Fuel Gas
>>> Production.Economics."
>>>
>>> Basically, 1 kg of free rice hulls yields $US 0.24 worth of pyrolysis
>>> gas for heating and 350 grams of Rice Hull Biochar worth about $0.30 per
>>> kg, or say $ 0.10
>>>
>>> A typical Vietnamese Family would consume about 1 MT of Rice Hulls per
>>> year, producing pyrolysis gas for cooking, worth about $240, and 350 kG of
>>> Biochar worth about $100, total $350 per year in the value of cooking
>>> energy + biochar sales per year.
>>>
>>> If your #150 stove sold for $40, it could pay for itself in less than
>>> 1/2 year, with sales of biochar alone, the value of the pyrolysis gases for
>>> cooking would be the equivalent of about 1 bottle of LPG per month, ie, an
>>> additional $22 per month of "free money." If the use of the pyrolysis gas
>>> displaced the need to purchase 1 bottle of LPG per month, then total
>>> savings would be about $22 + $8 = $30 per month, and the stove would be
>>> paid for in less than 2 months. This indeed would be a very attractive
>>> money making investment for the family.
>>>
>>> The method of financing the stoves that you propose is very attractive
>>> to the Typical Family, where a Charcoal Merchant would supply the stove to
>>> the Family, and they would pay for the stove with the charcoal they
>>> produced.
>>>
>>> The above numbers indicate that, at $0.30 per kG, the char production
>>> sells for $300 per MT.. If this was the value of the char, when sold into
>>> the "Biochar market", what would be the value of the char when sold into
>>> the "Charcoal Fuel market"?, If the value of the char when sold into the
>>> "Biochar Market" was greater than its value when sold into the Charcoal
>>> Fuel Market, then it would get used as biochar, but if it had more value as
>>> Charcoal fuel, it would be advantageous to the Family to sell it into the
>>> fuel market.
>>>
>>> it looks like you have a very attractive Stove Project!
>>>
>>> Best wishes for every success!
>>>
>>> Kevin
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> *From:* Paul Olivier
>>> *To:* Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>>> *Cc:* biochar at yahoogroups.com ;adrian at rocketworks.org ;
>>> sonta at emerging.se ;Ruben at ace.co.ls ;Priyadarshini Karve
>>> *Sent:* Monday, March 18, 2013 9:08 PM
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Stoves] [biochar] First report from Phnom Penh
>>>
>>> Kevin,
>>>
>>> Biochar can have significant value even in poor countries. For example,
>>> here in Dalat rice hull biochar is used extensively as a soil amendment.
>>> If a poor household can produce one kg of biochar per day and sell it at a
>>> fair market price, this will cover the cost of the means to produce it in
>>> less than a year. A lot more money has to be devoted to biochar research in
>>> a variety of agricultural applications. Once farmers understand the value
>>> of biochar with respect to the specific plants or animals they grow, there
>>> will be a rush to produce it. The high-grade heat produced in making
>>> biochar can be used for cooking, and as a by-product of biochar production,
>>> it becomes available to the household free-of-charge. To waste this heat,
>>> as some propose to do, is incredibly short-sighted. The sale of biochar
>>> should be able to cover not only the cost of the biomass from which it was
>>> derived, but in time it should also cover the means to produce it. That is
>>> why I push hard against those who want to use biochar as a fuel.
>>>
>>> Let us suppose that a gasifier costs $50 US dollars. Let us suppose that
>>> a household produces one kg of biochar per day at a value of only $0.20 US
>>> per kg. This represents an income of about $6.00 US dollars per month. In
>>> less than a year the cost of the gasifier is covered.
>>>
>>> Here in Vietnam LPG sells for about $22 US dollars per bottle. Some
>>> households consume up to two bottles of LPG each month. This works out to a
>>> monthly fuel cost of $44 US dollars. This reliance on fossil fuels is
>>> killing and has to stop.
>>>
>>> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/22013094/Paper/Presentations/Gasification.ppsx
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>> Paul
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 12:05 AM, Kevin wrote:
>>>
>>>> **
>>>> Dear Ron
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your very interesting report to date on "The Big Event."
>>>>
>>>> I think that one thing that could be very helpful is a Graph showing "
>>>> Stove Price" versus "Potential Customers." Clearly, if a person is earning
>>>> say $1 per day, and the stove cost $70, this would be equivalent to 70 days
>>>> income. Here in Canada, where the minimum wage is $10 per hour, or $80 per
>>>> day, a stove costing 70 days income would cost $5,600.
>>>>
>>>> Or, to look at it from the other direction, "What price would a stove
>>>> have to sell for, so that 90% of the World's Population could afford to buy
>>>> it"
>>>>
>>>> Thanks!
>>>>
>>>> Kevin
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> *From:* rongretlarson at comcast.net
>>>> *To:* Discussion of biomass ;biochar
>>>> *Cc:* Priyadarshini Karve ;,"paul anderson; Crispin
>>>> Pemberton-Pigott ;Ruben at ace.co.ls ;
>>>> adrian at rocketworks.org ;sonta at emerging.se
>>>> *Sent:* Monday, March 18, 2013 11:19 AM
>>>> *Subject:* [biochar] First report from Phnom Penh
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi to two lists (with 6 ccs)
>>>>
>>>> 1. This written at end of "first" day of conference. Actually the
>>>> official first GACC day is tomorrow, but today was also the second day of
>>>> pre-conference activities.. List members active on these two lists, here
>>>> (and shown on the "to" list), who I hope will add more are Priya Karve,
>>>> Paul Anderson and Crispin Pemberton-Piggott. I missed the first day -
>>>> Sunday - returning from Siem Reap - home of Angkor Wat. This is
>>>> definitely the most impressive world heritage site I have seen or could
>>>> imagine. Uniformly impressed by the Cambodian people.
>>>>
>>>> 2. My overall impression is that very few attendees know much about
>>>> biochar nor char-making stoves. Of course most everyone knows something
>>>> about stoves - although I would guess that fewer than half have been
>>>> involved for more than a year or t wo Heard tonight that there are 650
>>>> registrants. Great conference facilities; no conference registration fee
>>>> and fair number of freebie meals, coffee-break treats etc.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 3. My first surprise char-making stove encounter was with Sonta
>>>> Kauti, a Zambian with "Emerging Cooking Solutions" - whose stove can be
>>>> seen at www.emerging.se. I have not yet seen the actual stove, nor
>>>> yet know its pricing - but plan more talks with Sonta
>>>>
>>>> 4. Next was a short encounter with Ruben Walker of "African Clean
>>>> Energy" (see http://www.ace.co.ls/), now manufacturing in Lesotho the
>>>> "Philips" fan stove developed by Paul van der Sluis (PvdS). This has been
>>>> identified as having the best performance characteristics so far tested.
>>>> This was my first chance to hold one - and it looks exceptionally well
>>>> made. A surprise was the set of 10 or 12 (?) flat ceramic liner pieces for
>>>> the interior (maybe 1 cm thick??).&nb sp; Presumably long life time - being
>>>> non-metal. Ruben said one could hold the outside of the stove after an
>>>> hour of cooking -possible because there are four concentric metal
>>>> cylinders (three concentric air gaps). This stove is not char making -
>>>> but I remember hearing that PvdS regularly operates it as a
>>>> charcoal-maker. Cost in neighborhood of $70.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 5. Later, at this evening's reception, Mr. Adrian Padt of "Rocket
>>>> Works" introduced himself (see http://www.rocketworks.org/ -
>>>> including photo of Adrian). This is the stove with the interesting heavy
>>>> wire mesh exterior that we discussed a few months ago - also can be held.
>>>> This also looked exceptionally well made and rugged. Cost in the
>>>> neighborhood of $50. In addition to the version seen at the site, they
>>>> are now adding a door to better control excess air.
>>>>
>>>> 6. I attended a day-long session put on by the World B ank and the
>>>> Asian Development Bank.- the emphasis was on country organizations in this
>>>> region. Crispin was on what I thought the best panel - on testing, etc.
>>>> This is to hope that Priya, Paul, and Crispin (and anyone else from these
>>>> lists here in Phnom Penh) will also add their early summary thoughts.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Any questions I/we can try to answer?
>>>>
>>>> Ron
>>>>
>>>> __._,_.___
>>>> Reply via web post Reply
>>>> to sender
>>>> Reply
>>>> to group
>>>> Start
>>>> a New Topic Messages
>>>> in this topic(1)
>>>> Recent Activity:
>>>>
>>>> - New Members
>>>> 2
>>>>
>>>> Visit Your Group
>>>> [image: Yahoo! Groups]
>>>> Switch to: Text-Only,
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>>>> Unsubscribe ? Terms
>>>> of Use ? Send us Feedback
>>>>
>>>> .
>>>>
>>>> __,_._,___
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Stoves mailing list
>>>>
>>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>>>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>>
>>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>>>
>>>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>>
>>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
>>>> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Paul A. Olivier PhD
>>> 26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong
>>> Dalat
>>> Vietnam
>>>
>>> Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
>>> Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
>>> Skype address: Xpolivier
>>> http://www.esrla.com/
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Stoves mailing list
>>>
>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>
>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>>
>>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>
>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
>>> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Stoves mailing list
>>>
>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>
>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>>
>>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>
>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
>>> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Paul A. Olivier PhD
>> 26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong
>> Dalat
>> Vietnam
>>
>> Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
>> Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
>> Skype address: Xpolivier
>> http://www.esrla.com/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Stoves mailing list
>>
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
>> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> ***
> Dr. A.D. Karve
> Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>
>
>
--
Paul A. Olivier PhD
26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong
Dalat
Vietnam
Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
Skype address: Xpolivier
http://www.esrla.com/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 15:01:44 +0700
From: Paul Olivier
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
Subject: Re: [Stoves] [biochar] First report from Phnom Penh
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
Kevin,
In the study on Water spinach, Chinese cabbage, Celery cabbage and Mustard
greens, the starting pH was 5.8.
Where do you get this pH number of 4.5?
Paul
On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Kevin wrote:
> **
> Dear Anand
>
> The impressive yield improvement may have been due to neither the minerals
> nor the biochar, but simply as a result of pH adjustment by the ash content
> of the biochar. As I recall, the original "Control Soil" used in the
> Preston Report had a pH in the range of about 4.5, while the "biochar soil"
> with the maximum yield had a pH in the range of 7-7.5.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Kevin
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Anand Karve
> *To:* Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 21, 2013 9:53 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Stoves] [biochar] First report from Phnom Penh
>
> Dear Paul, Ron and others,
> I was instrumental in the development of an urban biogas plant, which
> does not use cattle dung but uses food waste as feedstock. One kg dry
> weight of starch, sugar, cellulose, protein or any other kind of human food
> produces about 1 kg biogas. My biogas plant could normally accept only
> 1gram (dry weight) food waste per litre capacity of digester. Our
> experiments in which the biogas digester was filled with charcoal made it
> possible to increase the quantity of food waste to three grams per litre,
> with three times as much biogas becoming available from the same
> plant. This worked for about three months and then the higher efficiency
> was no longer available. It is a common observation, that a biogas plant
> works better, if chemical fertilizers are added to the feedstock. I have
> been thinking about this and it appears to me that it was the minerals in
> the biochar, that were contributing to this phenomenon. After the organisms
> in the biogas plant had consumed the minerals, the higher efficiency was no
> longer available.
> The same phenomenon might be responsible for the higher yield in fields
> provided with biochar.
> Yours
> A.D.Karve
> On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 12:24 PM, Paul Olivier wrote:
>
>> Kevin,
>>
>> Thanks very much for your reflection. Toward the end, you raise the
>> interesting question: which is worth more, biochar as a fuel or biochar as
>> an agricultural product? Let me come down strongly in favor of biochar as
>> an agricultural product. At the end of the same presentation, I ask the
>> question: what is the value of biochar when cattle put on 25% more weight
>> than those in the control group, when enteric methane emissions from the
>> same cattle are reduced by 42%, when mustard greens grow at a rate 400%
>> faster than the control group, or when the same mustard greens have 40%
>> less fiber and 35% more protein? About 20 experiments were carried put with
>> rice hull biochar from my gasifiers, and all indicated much higher plant
>> and animal growth. How then do we put a value on biochar, when current
>> prices for biochar do not yet reflect this new reality? If we burn biochar,
>> all goes up in a puff of smoke. If we use biochar in agriculture, we use a
>> lot less feed and a lot less fertilizer for the same end result, and the
>> benefits stay with us a very long time.
>>
>> We stand in urgent need for a lot more biochar studies in a lot more
>> agricultural settings. What we are trying to do at the moment is to
>> understand why biochar has such a dramatic effect when used in agriculture.
>> Yes, we can point to its pore structure, to its surface area, to its cation
>> and anion exchange capacities, to its pH and to its water-holding capacity.
>> But these elements alone do not give a complete picture. Over 20 years ago,
>> Japanese scientists were pointing out how biochar promotes the growth of
>> abuscular mycorrhizal fungi. I have a strong suspicion that these
>> scientists were leading us in the right direction. So in some of the next
>> biochar studies that Dr. Preston will conduct, he will focus on how biochar
>> promotes the growth of AM fungi.
>>
>> Thanks.
>> Paul
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 11:57 AM, Kevin wrote:
>>
>>> **
>>> Dear Paul
>>>
>>> Thanks very much for your very interesting slide Presentation on your
>>> Stove, and the explanation of "Rice Hull Biochar and Fuel Gas
>>> Production.Economics."
>>>
>>> Basically, 1 kg of free rice hulls yields $US 0.24 worth of pyrolysis
>>> gas for heating and 350 grams of Rice Hull Biochar worth about $0.30 per
>>> kg, or say $ 0.10
>>>
>>> A typical Vietnamese Family would consume about 1 MT of Rice Hulls per
>>> year, producing pyrolysis gas for cooking, worth about $240, and 350 kG of
>>> Biochar worth about $100, total $350 per year in the value of cooking
>>> energy + biochar sales per year.
>>>
>>> If your #150 stove sold for $40, it could pay for itself in less than
>>> 1/2 year, with sales of biochar alone, the value of the pyrolysis gases for
>>> cooking would be the equivalent of about 1 bottle of LPG per month, ie, an
>>> additional $22 per month of "free money." If the use of the pyrolysis gas
>>> displaced the need to purchase 1 bottle of LPG per month, then total
>>> savings would be about $22 + $8 = $30 per month, and the stove would be
>>> paid for in less than 2 months. This indeed would be a very attractive
>>> money making investment for the family.
>>>
>>> The method of financing the stoves that you propose is very attractive
>>> to the Typical Family, where a Charcoal Merchant would supply the stove to
>>> the Family, and they would pay for the stove with the charcoal they
>>> produced.
>>>
>>> The above numbers indicate that, at $0.30 per kG, the char production
>>> sells for $300 per MT.. If this was the value of the char, when sold into
>>> the "Biochar market", what would be the value of the char when sold into
>>> the "Charcoal Fuel market"?, If the value of the char when sold into the
>>> "Biochar Market" was greater than its value when sold into the Charcoal
>>> Fuel Market, then it would get used as biochar, but if it had more value as
>>> Charcoal fuel, it would be advantageous to the Family to sell it into the
>>> fuel market.
>>>
>>> it looks like you have a very attractive Stove Project!
>>>
>>> Best wishes for every success!
>>>
>>> Kevin
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> *From:* Paul Olivier
>>> *To:* Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>>> *Cc:* biochar at yahoogroups.com ;adrian at rocketworks.org ;
>>> sonta at emerging.se ;Ruben at ace.co.ls ;Priyadarshini Karve
>>> *Sent:* Monday, March 18, 2013 9:08 PM
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Stoves] [biochar] First report from Phnom Penh
>>>
>>> Kevin,
>>>
>>> Biochar can have significant value even in poor countries. For example,
>>> here in Dalat rice hull biochar is used extensively as a soil amendment.
>>> If a poor household can produce one kg of biochar per day and sell it at a
>>> fair market price, this will cover the cost of the means to produce it in
>>> less than a year. A lot more money has to be devoted to biochar research in
>>> a variety of agricultural applications. Once farmers understand the value
>>> of biochar with respect to the specific plants or animals they grow, there
>>> will be a rush to produce it. The high-grade heat produced in making
>>> biochar can be used for cooking, and as a by-product of biochar production,
>>> it becomes available to the household free-of-charge. To waste this heat,
>>> as some propose to do, is incredibly short-sighted. The sale of biochar
>>> should be able to cover not only the cost of the biomass from which it was
>>> derived, but in time it should also cover the means to produce it. That is
>>> why I push hard against those who want to use biochar as a fuel.
>>>
>>> Let us suppose that a gasifier costs $50 US dollars. Let us suppose that
>>> a household produces one kg of biochar per day at a value of only $0.20 US
>>> per kg. This represents an income of about $6.00 US dollars per month. In
>>> less than a year the cost of the gasifier is covered.
>>>
>>> Here in Vietnam LPG sells for about $22 US dollars per bottle. Some
>>> households consume up to two bottles of LPG each month. This works out to a
>>> monthly fuel cost of $44 US dollars. This reliance on fossil fuels is
>>> killing and has to stop.
>>>
>>> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/22013094/Paper/Presentations/Gasification.ppsx
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>> Paul
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 12:05 AM, Kevin wrote:
>>>
>>>> **
>>>> Dear Ron
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your very interesting report to date on "The Big Event."
>>>>
>>>> I think that one thing that could be very helpful is a Graph showing "
>>>> Stove Price" versus "Potential Customers." Clearly, if a person is earning
>>>> say $1 per day, and the stove cost $70, this would be equivalent to 70 days
>>>> income. Here in Canada, where the minimum wage is $10 per hour, or $80 per
>>>> day, a stove costing 70 days income would cost $5,600.
>>>>
>>>> Or, to look at it from the other direction, "What price would a stove
>>>> have to sell for, so that 90% of the World's Population could afford to buy
>>>> it"
>>>>
>>>> Thanks!
>>>>
>>>> Kevin
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> *From:* rongretlarson at comcast.net
>>>> *To:* Discussion of biomass ;biochar
>>>> *Cc:* Priyadarshini Karve ;,"paul anderson; Crispin
>>>> Pemberton-Pigott ;Ruben at ace.co.ls ;
>>>> adrian at rocketworks.org ;sonta at emerging.se
>>>> *Sent:* Monday, March 18, 2013 11:19 AM
>>>> *Subject:* [biochar] First report from Phnom Penh
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi to two lists (with 6 ccs)
>>>>
>>>> 1. This written at end of "first" day of conference. Actually the
>>>> official first GACC day is tomorrow, but today was also the second day of
>>>> pre-conference activities.. List members active on these two lists, here
>>>> (and shown on the "to" list), who I hope will add more are Priya Karve,
>>>> Paul Anderson and Crispin Pemberton-Piggott. I missed the first day -
>>>> Sunday - returning from Siem Reap - home of Angkor Wat. This is
>>>> definitely the most impressive world heritage site I have seen or could
>>>> imagine. Uniformly impressed by the Cambodian people.
>>>>
>>>> 2. My overall impression is that very few attendees know much about
>>>> biochar nor char-making stoves. Of course most everyone knows something
>>>> about stoves - although I would guess that fewer than half have been
>>>> involved for more than a year or t wo Heard tonight that there are 650
>>>> registrants. Great conference facilities; no conference registration fee
>>>> and fair number of freebie meals, coffee-break treats etc.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 3. My first surprise char-making stove encounter was with Sonta
>>>> Kauti, a Zambian with "Emerging Cooking Solutions" - whose stove can be
>>>> seen at www.emerging.se. I have not yet seen the actual stove, nor
>>>> yet know its pricing - but plan more talks with Sonta
>>>>
>>>> 4. Next was a short encounter with Ruben Walker of "African Clean
>>>> Energy" (see http://www.ace.co.ls/), now manufacturing in Lesotho the
>>>> "Philips" fan stove developed by Paul van der Sluis (PvdS). This has been
>>>> identified as having the best performance characteristics so far tested.
>>>> This was my first chance to hold one - and it looks exceptionally well
>>>> made. A surprise was the set of 10 or 12 (?) flat ceramic liner pieces for
>>>> the interior (maybe 1 cm thick??).&nb sp; Presumably long life time - being
>>>> non-metal. Ruben said one could hold the outside of the stove after an
>>>> hour of cooking -possible because there are four concentric metal
>>>> cylinders (three concentric air gaps). This stove is not char making -
>>>> but I remember hearing that PvdS regularly operates it as a
>>>> charcoal-maker. Cost in neighborhood of $70.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 5. Later, at this evening's reception, Mr. Adrian Padt of "Rocket
>>>> Works" introduced himself (see http://www.rocketworks.org/ -
>>>> including photo of Adrian). This is the stove with the interesting heavy
>>>> wire mesh exterior that we discussed a few months ago - also can be held.
>>>> This also looked exceptionally well made and rugged. Cost in the
>>>> neighborhood of $50. In addition to the version seen at the site, they
>>>> are now adding a door to better control excess air.
>>>>
>>>> 6. I attended a day-long session put on by the World B ank and the
>>>> Asian Development Bank.- the emphasis was on country organizations in this
>>>> region. Crispin was on what I thought the best panel - on testing, etc.
>>>> This is to hope that Priya, Paul, and Crispin (and anyone else from these
>>>> lists here in Phnom Penh) will also add their early summary thoughts.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Any questions I/we can try to answer?
>>>>
>>>> Ron
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Paul A. Olivier PhD
>>> 26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong
>>> Dalat
>>> Vietnam
>>>
>>> Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
>>> Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
>>> Skype address: Xpolivier
>>> http://www.esrla.com/
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Paul A. Olivier PhD
>> 26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong
>> Dalat
>> Vietnam
>>
>> Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
>> Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
>> Skype address: Xpolivier
>> http://www.esrla.com/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Stoves mailing list
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>> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
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>>
>>
>
>
> --
> ***
> Dr. A.D. Karve
> Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)
>
> ------------------------------
>
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--
Paul A. Olivier PhD
26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong
Dalat
Vietnam
Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
Skype address: Xpolivier
http://www.esrla.com/
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