[Stoves] Specifics about advancement of TLUD stoves Re: fan expertise?

[Jock Gill]

I concur with what Paul is saying but would add a few more "requirements".

Aspirational:  What do people in the less advantaged world aspire to?  I would guess that it will be something like a two burner bottled gas stove: blue flames, little or no soot on pots, clean burning. Simple to use for a long as required.  A key requirement may be to show that it is "good enough" for the Advantaged World too.  Who wants something that is not good enough for the top of the pyramid?

One of my student's kitchens, India, 2003.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jockgill/548126504/



Value creating:  If it can be shown that a pyrolytic device can help move a user from "buyer to seller" of kitchen garden produce, then we have a clear winner of a "benefit".  In used car lingo, money talks and nobody walks.

Government support: Education, policy, & incentives.

A stove that created real value, was aspiration all in nature, supported by Education, Policy, & Incentives, would have a much better chance of adoption on a broad scale.





Jock Gill
P.O. Box 3
Peacham,  VT 05862

Cell: (617) 449-8111

:> Extract CO2 from the atmosphere! <:

Sent from my iPad

On May 26, 2013, at 7:28 AM, Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu> wrote:

> Dear all,   This is a different and more specific reply to Otto's message.
> 
> I see four things that will greatly advance the position of micro-gasifier stoves, specifically the TLUD stoves.   I am working on all four of them.
> 
> 1.  Prove that stove users will accept TLUD gasifier stoves (at reasonable price, but this is not about price.) and (with a reasonable supply chain for appropriate fuels, but this is not about fuels) :  
> 
> We lack meaningful studies that show that TLUD stoves (when available and with fuels available) are accepted by "typical" cookstove users in any significant segment of the population.   We need some documentation that xx number of TLUD users (out of yy number of households that seriously tried TLUD stoves) are still using the stoves zz percent of the time for their cooking, and this is over time periods that are checked again and again each few months.    Comments from users should be reported.
> 
> Start small, and do it well.   The money for the bigger studies will follow success with the small numbers.    This is NOT about sales.   This is about sustained usage.
> 
> We are working on this topic at Awamu in Uganda with the Quad TLUD stove, but no results to report at this time.    Is anyone else doing such studies?
> 
> 2.  Compilation of past results and further data collection about emissions and efficiencies of TLUD stoves.  Some TLUD have had major success.   And others "suck".   Which ones and why?   We seek data from the stove testing centers.   We also will do further work at Stove Camps in the coming 3 months.
> 
> 3.  Prove the capacities to produce sufficient numbers of TLUD stoves with excellent functioning.   The response must be credible for numbers of many 10s of thousands for stoves per year.   20 tinsmiths seated in a factory is not sufficient proof.   Prof. Nurhuda has shown that metal stamping can produce his TLUD stoves with good quality.   I do not doubt that capacity worldwide could be sufficient when demand is there, but with the goal of creating in-country jobs, for most situations "proof" is still not in hand.
> 
> 4.  Bring the price below US$10 for the low-end products that are still functional about emissions and efficiencies.    I am working on this and I hope to report about it at the July stove camp at Aprovecho where TLUD stoves are a focal issue.
> 
> Note that I did NOT add on having different TLUD stoves such as the ones with fans like Ron is discussing.   When they become available, that will be wonderful.  But then such stoves will still need to be considered regarding # 1 and #2 and #3 above.   They might be the breakthrough for gaining acceptance, or lower emissions, or whatever.
> 
> Paul
> 
> Paul S. Anderson, PhD  aka "Dr TLUD"
> Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu   Skype: paultlud  Phone: +1-309-452-7072
> Website:  www.drtlud.com
> On 5/26/2013 2:46 AM, Otto Formo wrote:
>> Ron
>>  
>> I do not see any point in arguing with all and anybody, to try to convince them , that gasifing of biomass are here to BE and will develop more rapidly, than anyone ever belived.
>>  
>> What about the issue of biomass as fuel?
>> Here are a LOT of challanges in preparation, production, handeling etc.
>>  
>> Paul A and Ron, 
>> If, "Open Source", realy means something to you, then create a group of "belivers" and start from there.
>>  
>> Thanks.
>>  
>> Otto
> 
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