[Stoves] [Ethos] ETHOS Discussion aboutdecentalized stove efforts
Richard Stanley
rstanley at legacyfound.org
Thu Jan 9 12:06:37 CST 2014
Paal,
Thats a nice technical delineation of a good planning process. We have also found it effective to include more contextual questions for not only the present conditions but the forecasted future conditions as well, such as;
• what are the alternatives to stoves i any, both (again) present and forseen. Is Global Oil going to introduce free gas (for a while at least), Is the local power utility expanding its electric lines ? Is Save the World International out there planning a biogas project..? Is there a planned woodlot with Dependency International inc.?
• what are the policies, condusive to, or inhibiting your intended project. Is the local government concerned about deforrestation (Incentives/laws/ implementation) ? all in the present and all as forecasted to at least the working future of your project.
• Who in the long run will really own the project?: Who controls production distribution and how are they integrated to their community . If it is to be a "deliverable" with quantitative objectives and verifiable outomes, how actually are you planning for integration to local realties, local takeover, local responsibility with localised incentives and if so, who puts what into the game, at what risk and who gets what out with what reward ?
Finally,
If there are any red flags in the above, how will you work WITH them to mutual benefit if at all possible or, if impossible, how will you avoid, or less kindly, possibly encapsulate them in your efforts…?
We have been at it 16 years + now and still bat only 60 to 70% but it was one heck of a lot less successful before we started asking these kinds of questions as well..
Hopefully this adds a few bits to consider for our fello stovers and "biofueler" success in 2014.
Richard Stanley
www.legacyfound.org
On Jan 9, 2014, at 12:59 AM, Paal Wendelbo wrote:
Dear Paul A
A decentralized stove project has a motto:
1. Environment and health improvement
2. Save the forest
3. Creating jobs.
And start like this at a certain location:
1. Registration of local resources of actual types of fuel and manpower.
2. Public discussion by involved parties. Why changes is needed. Winners and losers?
3. Demonstration of different stoves and different types of fuel.
4. Type of fuel to be used
5. Type of stoves to be used
6. Production of fuel and production of stoves. What can be produced locally?
7. Prices of fuel and prices of stoves. Finance and sales.
A centralized stove project has a motto:
1. Profit for producers of fuel and stoves.
2. Environment and health improvement if possible.
3. Marketing of nice products
4. Subsidizing and loan.
From: Paul Anderson
Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2014 10:32 PM
To: ethos at vrac.iastate.edu ; Discussion of biomass cooking stoves ; ted redelmeier ; David McInturff - Seachar
Subject: Re: [Stoves] [Ethos] ETHOS Discussion aboutdecentalized stove efforts
Ranyee,
Thanks for that very open and affirmative reply. The "and" makes a great difference.
Could you or others at GACC give some outline of what might be "different types of tailored support" that could reach those who are active in DEcentalized approaches to production.
Note from me: It is possible that funding for decentralized approaches might favor those decentralized approaches that can somehow work together or be mutually beneficial.
I would like to suggest that some funding might be made available that collectively assists cooperating (but not identical) decentralized efforts to produce (and disseminate) the micro-gasifier stoves that can perform at acceptable levels on the several criteria for stove approvals (the Tier system). Those interested in this (including discussing what constitutes sufficiently "decentralized" efforts) should gather at some session.
Or ALSO we organize ourselves to meet at some hours to discuss this. SO, I propose that those interested could gather RATHER INFORMALLY (but with purpose) promptly after the Friday evening social/informational gathering. Usually ends about 9 or 9:30 PM so we could get a little start on this topic.
I will be there for that initial meeting about support for decentralized production of TLUD or other micro-gasifier stoves.
Here on the Listservs we can discuss this. Such as stoves that have sophisticated parts (like forced air) are not included in the "decentralized" group. (this can be discussed) .
Anyone interested in joining me, please make yourself known.
Because Paal Wendelbo has already told us that he will not be attending ETHOS, he is encouraged to participate via email, and have his stove efforts included in the candidates and examples of decentralized cookstove efforts. Others in that situation? Or who want to be producing some design in a decentralized manner?
Paul
Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: psanders at ilstu.edu
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: www.drtlud.com
On 1/8/2014 8:22 AM, Ranyee Chiang wrote:
> Interesting topics for further discussion at ETHOS. A good way to frame this discussion may be to think about ways that the different types of efforts can be integrated together, or how they can learn from each other. Certainly from the Global Alliance's point of view, both types of efforts are important and require different types of tailored support. It would be useful to hear some discussion about the specifics of the tailored support that is needed in each case. And overall, I think that a discussion focused "and" not "versus" would be quite interesting.
>
> Cheers,
> Ranyee
> ________________________________________
> From: ethos-bounces at vrac.iastate.edu mailto:ethos-bounces at vrac.iastate.edu on behalf of Paul Anderson mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu
> Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 3:33 PM
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves; ETHOS - Listserve
> Subject: Re: [Ethos] [Stoves] ETHOS Discussion about decentalized stove efforts
>
> Ben,
>
> Please provide more info about that suggestion/recommendation. When was
> it, and to whom? Any viable contacts that could be reached for further
> clarification?
>
> In general, the decentralized elements are not "organized" and have far
> fewer funds. Much of it is lobbying and money to get decisions that
> favor those who can lobby and have the money already. Because that is
> not likely to change, what strategies are possible for decentralized
> efforts even in relatively small geographic areas?
>
> Paul
>
> Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
> Email: psanders at ilstu.edu
> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
> Website: www.drtlud.com
>
> On 12/31/2013 8:51 PM, Ben Blevins wrote:
>> Deloitte contractors suggested decentralized for various reasons, there consulting was rejected because the finding did not reinforce the message of mass production and distribution by development industry players.
>>
>> B
>>
>>
>> On Dec 31, 2013, at 6:34 PM, Paul Anderson mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Paal, and all,
>>>
>>> As much as I can agree with Paal's statements, but I think the cards are stacked against the success of decentralized efforts.
>>>
>>> The issue that Paal raises about the need to have decentralized production of stoves (and fuels) is a touchy topic because the "model" of the affluent world is for centralized industrial production. That centralized model is certainly a cornerstone of the GACC and WB and many who feel that the model of the affluent world will work to resolve major issues in the developing world. And they control access to most of the funding. And they present very convincing arguments. (If they could not, they would not be in control of the situation.)
>>>
>>> It would be good to have some examples of decentralized efforts having major impacts. Maybe the spread of the Kenyan ceramic jiko (KCJ) is one example.
>>>
>>> I will be at ETHOS and willing for such discussions if others step forward wanting to discuss this informally as an ad hoc sub-group.
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>> Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
>>> Email: psanders at ilstu.edu
>>> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
>>> Website: www.drtlud.com
>>>
>>> On 12/31/2013 10:15 AM, paaw at online.no wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 31 Dec 2013 08:12:54 -0700,
>>>> stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Due to health and age it will not be possible for me to participate, but after 30 years working with task and followed the discussion at Stove list I have come to this conclusion.
>>>>>
>>>>> There has to be a discussion at ETHOS about centralized or decentralized activities regarding fuel and stove production with a view on the enormous unemployment in developing countries. Taken into consideration the high demands of clean combustion, pellets will be the future biomass fuel for simple clean burning such as TLUD ND and FD. Energy forestry and agriculture energy production together collection of waste biomass of different types will give a lot of new needed jobs.
>>>>>
>>>>> · Registration of local waste combustible biomass.
>>>>>
>>>>> · Use of local resources
>>>>>
>>>>> · Biochar production by cooking.
>>>>>
>>>>> That will be the best way for GACC Stove program to support the low income groups all around the worl
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards Paal Wendelbo paaw at online.no
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